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What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Logansfury
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What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Logansfury » May 27th, 2016, 10:37 pm

This question just hit me like a ton of bricks - not the simplicity of the question itself, but the fact I cant recall seeing it asked anywhere recently either!

As Im closing on a kill achive and battling more daily than ever, I note im falling on Graves teams more and more often to retain wins.

Has anyone found non-Graves teams that prove consistantly strong?
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Gráinne
 
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Gráinne » May 28th, 2016, 12:29 pm

[Insert Standard Disclaimer that there is no "strongest" anything.']

Having said that, IMO, the strongest team is Graves/MPD/X, for values of X in the set
{Ghastly Kid, Murkalot, Ruby Droplet, Alterac Brew Pup, Magical Crawdad}

I've beaten Murkalot/Graves at least three times in the last 700 matches, and never lost to it, so I don't particularly fear that one.

Without a Graves of my own, I have never got close to having a vague possibility of thinking of imagining how to draw with Graves/MPD/healer or Consume Corpse Graves/MPD/Kid, played competently. Abandon all hope. I've met Consume Corpse Graves/MPD/Kid many times, and I haven't even scratched that - ever. Of course, it's likely that only experienced players will go for Consume Corpse Graves, and that's a big factor. I plough through Graves teams that are played by beginners, but when my opponent can guess what I'm going for and counter it, and has Graves/MPD/Kid, I'm dead.

Without Graves, and if looking for a beginner team that doesn't require skill, I'd go for any combo of Bone Serpent, Weeb, MPD ... ma-aybe FoA. Three Weebs. Three Bone Serpents. Two Weebs and a Serpent. Three MPDs. MPD + Serpent + Weeb. I've run into several of those this week, and, honestly, that's what I'd recommend. If you have Graves to add to that, great!

My overall win rate usually goes 70%-80%. The last time I did numbers, my win rate against these combos was like 20%-30%.

That's what the game is at the moment. Those pets have a crazy advantage. Those are the teams that will win most of the time. If you want to win, use them.

If you do want to avoid that, the strongest team I know is Disco's Rich Girls. I never go twice into the queue with the same team, but I used it quite a bit in my sprint this week:
http://pvppetbattles.com/wod-teams/
H/H Bone Serpent (Bone Barrage, Call Darkness, Nocturnal Strike)
P/P Junglebeak (Peck, Rain Dance, Nocturnal Strike)
S/S Nightshade Sproutling (Lash, Call Darkness, Blinding Poison)

When grinding wins, it has the extra advantage of being fast and mitigating against healers.

Close contenders of the tricky variety:

Disco's Kid, Look What You Done Did
S/S Fiendish Imp (Burn, Immolation, Nether Gate)
H/H Ghastly Kid (Hoof, Ethereal, Haunt)
H/S Scalded Basilisk Hatchling (Crystal Prison, Feign Death, Thrash)


Vergilioar's Equilibrium
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14409#p125900
S/S Fiendish Imp (Burn, Immolation, Nether Gate)
H/H Ghastly Kid (Hoof, Ethereal, Haunt)
S/S Nightshade Sproutling (Lash, Nature's Ward. Blinding Poison)


All three of these teams take quite a bit of concentration to play well, though, and I can say from experience can leave you burned out after a long session. I started the week having fun with Willy, got the idea of making the 1000 while the queue was popping quickly, and alternated these kinds of teams with no-brain The Evil Undead (feat. MPD) and I now don't want to see a PvP match again for ... quite a while.

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Logansfury
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Logansfury » May 28th, 2016, 1:04 pm

IMO, the strongest team is Graves/MPD/X, for values of X in the set
{Ghastly Kid, Murkalot, Ruby Droplet, Alterac Brew Pup, Magical Crawdad}

I've beaten Murkalot/Graves at least three times in the last 700 matches, and never lost to it, so I don't particularly fear that one.


Almost identical to my experience. To my mind, THE meta-team is Graves, MDP, FoA. In my personal corner of the que, the Graves, MPD, X factor is most commonly filled with Weebomb, Fossilized Hatchling, and Bone Serpent.

With Murk, Graves, MPD im 31-10-2 and most of the losses have been recent.

Your advice looks excellent here - the meta variants replacing Graves' slot with undead/mech and some of Disco's strongest synergy teams. I have had 75% win rate with Disco's Rick Frostly team and some fun playing it for maximum consumes/game.

I think ive got all the tools necessary to hit my kill achieves in a timely manner, but I cant resist the temptation of team research here between the queues.
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Biscuit » May 28th, 2016, 2:55 pm

Before the Age of Graves, the S/S Ore Eater was an S-Tier pet.
So, if you're ignoring Graves, I'd say he needs to be on your team.
Went 17-0-0 yesterday alone with:
S/S Ore Eater
P/S Scalded Basilisk
H/H Ghastly Kid

However, Legion brings with it the long-awaited Graves nerf, but it also brings with it the nerf to Shell Armor.
In that regard, I believe the Ore Eater and Hydraling will be sliding down the rankings.

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Logansfury
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Logansfury » May 28th, 2016, 3:19 pm

My biggest hope for legion is the new meta environment will allow for more use of Murkalot. I just cant get enough of this guy flailing away and I never tire of hunting down new teams incorporating him in any way.

Id also like to see a rise in dragonkin use.

I just love seeing the Sword and Sorcery element in my pet battling. Knights and dragons...
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Gráinne » May 28th, 2016, 7:18 pm

Logansfury wrote:To my mind, THE meta-team is Graves, MDP, FoA. In my personal corner of the que, the Graves, MPD, X factor is most commonly filled with Weebomb, Fossilized Hatchling, and Bone Serpent.


I sort of get the FoA, and I sort of don't.

If you have Graves/MPD, and you vaguely know how to play them, then you already have a winning team; you don't need a third. So you can pick anything.

A beefy Undead to give you a safe 4 or 5 rounds as a sweeper if you need it is an acceptable third. But sometimes you will meet a counter-meta team, or perhaps you don't play well, or your opponent does play well. You may want something to tank while Graves gets his CDs back. You may want something to hold the line at end of game. The FoA is only adequate here.

I haven't been terribly impressed with the FoAs I've seen in this slot, when compared to the other Evil Undead. If the stun procs, it's a superstar, of course, but mostly the stun doesn't, and it's foxmeat. I'm much more worried about healing Graves one way or another. If I had to pick an Evil Undead for X, I'd go with Weeb. A Weeb will lose to a Teroclaw or a Crab one on one at endgame, but so will an FoA, and you can haul the Weeb out to tank while Graves gets his CDs back, and use Consume Corpse to top him up when you wheel him out at the end.

I still say that Haunt->Consume Corpse is gamebreaking. The only mercy is that not too many people have cottoned on to it.

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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Wootzy » May 29th, 2016, 1:48 pm

It's nice that we can track win/loss records with Rematch. Non of my teams have reached 90%.
I have plenty of teams around 80% and a couple of selfmade teams are above 85% (non-graves and non mpd).
Wich teams you ask? Hmm.. Bone Serpent :mrgreen:

edit: spelling
Last edited by Wootzy on May 29th, 2016, 2:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Wootzy » May 29th, 2016, 1:56 pm

From the top of my head,

this team: Nightshade S/S (Lash, Heal, Blind) FOA and Veng.Proc
beats this team: GRAVES, FOA, MPD
;)
Last edited by Wootzy on May 29th, 2016, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Wootzy » May 29th, 2016, 2:05 pm

Gráinne wrote:I still say that Haunt->Consume Corpse is gamebreaking. The only mercy is that not too many people have cottoned on to it.


+1
Evil team: Kid (consume magic), Graves (or weebo), Trunks (elekks fly)
:twisted:
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Logansfury
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Logansfury » May 29th, 2016, 5:39 pm

Wootzy wrote:From the top of my head,

this team: Nightshade S/S (Lash, Heal, Blind) FOA and Veng.Proc
beats this team: GRAVES, FOA, MPD
;)


Oh absolutely, I was forced to learn to use variants of that counter team when my zone of the ques was flooded with Graves/MDP/FoA.

I went with Disco and Hirus team counters that replaced the FoA with frostfur rat I believe

Effective and fun to play!
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Fantee » May 30th, 2016, 9:40 am

I win some battles against Graves team with:

Sunreaver Micro-Sentry 2, 2, 1
Clockwork Gnome 1, 1, 1
Son of Animus 2, 2, 1

I just keep the Lightning Storm up, Turrets and when Graves is up I defeat him quickly with Haywire.

Of course I lost some battles, but it was this team that managed to defeat more times the Graves combo.

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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Drudatz » May 30th, 2016, 5:49 pm

Blossoming Ancient, Sunflower and Teroclaw Hatchling.

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Logansfury
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Re: What is strongest NON-Graves team?

Postby Logansfury » June 1st, 2016, 8:45 pm

Tyvm for the above 2 team suggestions :)
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