[Legion] Immaculate Battle-Training Stones: Epic Pets

[Jerebear]

You should've been read my original statement (Remte is my EU character):

Thirdly, how to keep the previous content relevant? It seems to be quite simple: either there's a mandatory version of Timewalking (All better pets become automatically lvl 25 rares) or all important opponents are buffed. However, the second option is destructive for accounts without the pets upgraded.

The Celestial Tournament in WoD is waaaay easier than in MoP.
I'm fine with it, but lifting it more to have the prestige taken away would be No-No.

There is NOTHING about Tanaan. The poster above you has quoted me ignoring the core and replaced it with his own ramblings.
I guess that it's meant to deceive people. He's done the same with another poster in the recent exp thread.

Sorry about that then. I was going off of their post, which was a mistake. That said, what I was saying is actually a thing for some. I've heard people call the Tanaan elites the "WoD CT". I don't myself though. Again sorry for the earlier post. I can generally rely on people here providing the proper context when they quote, but I guess not in this case. I'll have to be more careful in the future.

[Zonnetje]

The comment about each new xpac making older content a faceroll was probably the best comparison to what is being done to elevate pet battling. Perhaps, in retrospect, it seems sudden, because it wasn't implemented with the subsequent xpacs after pet battling release, and it should have been. If nothing else to give the sense of consistency with the rest of the game. As players, in general, we dig in our feet over the changes in the game, from leveling mechanics, lfg, lfr, garrisons, professions, talent systems, etc.. etc.. etc.. This, to me, is exactly the same. It is another change Blizzard is going to institute, and rather than complaining at the OMG, look at all the work I have to do UGH. I am looking at it more in lines of, finally, something to keep pet battling to more than watching the AH for a decent price on the last of the pets I personally want to collect.

No one's collection should ever be complete and stagnant. A comment made to me in conversation with a fellow collector over this just last night. The majority of the complaints from battlers over the proposed changes seem to be loudest from those at the top. Is it out of fear someone might lose a coveted elite position in the rankings? That someone might catch up? Who knows.

Personally, I think it is great Blizzard is giving some much needed love and rejuvenation to pet battling.

[Drudatz]

The comment about each new xpac making older content a faceroll was probably the best comparison to what is being done to elevate pet battling.

Sorry but Wod made Mops Pet Challanges into facerolling by adding new pets.

These new stones will lead to everyone epic'ing the next Graves and probably Murkalot. BAM
ZERO diversity...

The pool of serious pet collectors has a pool of around max 170k people.
(That is, if no Brightpaw was gifted)
These people are - as my friend calls me - "crazy".
They Level each pet to max and upgrade them all to rare.
Expecting us to have to upgrade them all again is NOT a good way of adding content but more along the line
if blizzard introduced in Legion the next raid with FIVE difficulties (lfr, normal, hc, mythic and super special snowflake - I am the biggest and best - mythic^2)
It just adds anothergrind. If its anything else besides cosmetic it will make the pool of pvp'ers even SMALLER then it is allready while blizzard should work along the line to have more people try it out.
This way in Legion a newbie will face of against players with 3 epic pets who are FASTER and STRONGER then ANY pet he has.

As someone else said Pets should be about bringing the pets you LIKE, not bring the FOTM (for that we have bgs....) and forget all the others....

People are complaining and they do not even know how they will be acquired.

Atm you buy the stones on alpha for 200 pet charms - but its random which family stone you get...
You should follow Quints blog....

No one's collection should ever be complete and stagnant.

apart from a VERY FEW nones ever will be. Cause there are new pets added (be it in game, in store) each xpac and because of all the tcg pets and raf pets you still have to get. So thats a VERY bad argument to claim the stones are needed....

[Vakeetah]

No one's collection should ever be complete and stagnant.

apart from a VERY FEW nones ever will be. Cause there are new pets added (be it in game, in store) each xpac and because of all the tcg pets and raf pets you still have to get. So thats a VERY bad argument to claim the stones are needed....

It's also an equally bad argument against them. At the end of the day, upgrading a collection to full Epics, like upgrading it to full Rares, is a personal choice. Not that I defend their implementation (at least, not until things are clearer) but I find extremely unreasonable to upfront oppose changes to pet battles for trivial, personal reasons.

Besides, those veterans with the most advanced collections would be at a better position for upgrading were this to pass (due to spare tokens and fuller rosters) so if anything, it'd be more taxing on everyone else.

[Blue_frog]

Why I hate the Idea of Epic pets

1. PVP

If you think graves turns off new pvp players. When they see the epic meta team of the expac it will probably be more so... For example, lets say graves wasn't getting nerfed. If you are a brand new player that just wanted to try out pvp, and all you saw was epic graves / epic MPD / epic frag of anger, you probably would quit if you just had rare pets.

If new players quit then we don't have pet battle pvp anymore because hello 10-20 min ques

2. Tuning

You have to pick a difficulty and either way it doesn't work. Either we tune it to epic as you are expected to have an all epic team or tune it to rare. This either makes it faceroll for some and somewhat difficult for others (rare tuning). The other is make it somewhat difficult for some and impossible for others (epic tuning). The 3rd option is scaling but then why bother with upgrading at all. the 4th is 2 separate difficulties but even then that's not that great of a solution.


3. Collecting

I really don't want to have nothing but dailies for 2 years where I feel like I have to grind dailes every day. The RNG element to it makes it even worse. I just finished. I want to do something different than upgrading quality again

4. It;s a nerf

It's like gear upgrade. It's a broad nerf to everything. Sure, it makes you feel better about yourself because they buffed you. But it's a nerf to all content, current and past. Do we really need to nerf ashlei? Pet battles isn't too hard. Why does it need such a broad nerf?


5.Barrier to entry

Somewhere a standard will be drawn. Somewhere everyone will have something and it just becomes an unwritten rule. Right now, it's rare pets in pvp are standard. If they are not... prepare to get stomped. It's where all tuning and everything will fall. Saying you need epic to play is just too high.

[Desi]

I'm not understanding the resistance to this change.

Since the access to these stones has been limited by the amount of tokens required and RnG, I think the point is for players to just upgrade select pets.

Even with PvP and Trainer battles combined, there aren't many pets in my collection that I battle with on a regular basis. There wouldn't be a need to upgrade entire collections.

[Blue_frog]

I'm not understanding the resistance to this change.

Since the access to these stones has been limited by the amount of tokens required and RnG, I think the point is for players to just upgrade select pets.

Even with PvP and Trainer battles combined, there aren't many pets in my collection that I battle with on a regular basis. There wouldn't be a need to upgrade entire collections.

Why do pet battles need to be easier? They are easy enough as is.... Where is anyone complaining doing pet battles fights are too hard?

That's my biggest resistance to it.

[Desi]

I'm not understanding the resistance to this change.

Since the access to these stones has been limited by the amount of tokens required and RnG, I think the point is for players to just upgrade select pets.

Even with PvP and Trainer battles combined, there aren't many pets in my collection that I battle with on a regular basis. There wouldn't be a need to upgrade entire collections.

Why do pet battles need to be easier? They are easy enough as is.... Where is anyone complaining doing pet battles fights are too hard?

That's my biggest resistance to it.

I've seen players talking about the concept of access epic level pets over the years, and I'd say Blizzard has now responded to that.

Everything in this game becomes easier with gear upgrades and outlevelling content. This would bring pet battles into alignment with that.

[Blue_frog]

I'm not understanding the resistance to this change.

Since the access to these stones has been limited by the amount of tokens required and RnG, I think the point is for players to just upgrade select pets.

Even with PvP and Trainer battles combined, there aren't many pets in my collection that I battle with on a regular basis. There wouldn't be a need to upgrade entire collections.

Why do pet battles need to be easier? They are easy enough as is.... Where is anyone complaining doing pet battles fights are too hard?

That's my biggest resistance to it.

I've seen players talking about the concept of access epic level pets over the years, and I'd say Blizzard has now responded to that.

Everything in this game becomes easier with gear upgrades and outlevelling content. This would bring pet battles into alignment with that.

Outgearing the whole game isn't fun

[Dalandius]

People are complaining and they do not even know how they will be acquired.

Atm you buy the stones on alpha for 200 pet charms - but its random which family stone you get...
You should follow Quints blog....

Yes I did see that and I would hope that is not the only way to get them, anyone with Alpha access checked to see how many stones you get in each bag?

Lower down it also says:

In response to concerns revolving around the introduction of epic pets to player collections, developer Jeremy Feasel notes that it might be possible for 'epic quality' to have a cosmetic-only effect on pets.

Which would gives collectors all the grind and no benefit.

[Desi]

Lower down it also says:

In response to concerns revolving around the introduction of epic pets to player collections, developer Jeremy Feasel notes that it might be possible for 'epic quality' to have a cosmetic-only effect on pets.

Which would gives collectors all the grind and no benefit.

Yea, how disappointing.

[Jerebear]

The big thing I don't really care about is the total time investment this *could* take. It's alpha, so things are subject to change, but assuming the 200 charms per stays. How quickly can you amass 200 charms? once every day, once ever few days? With over 700 pets, how many years will it take to upgrade the whole collection. You can currently fully level your collection and rarify it in *months" time (I did it in 3-4 months...can be faster than how I did it). This is could be a huge leap in time investment. I've never been a fan of super long time investments (I.E. year long). Hopefully there will be additional ways to do this if it stays.

[Merana]

How quickly can you amass 200 charms?

With 25 level 100s and a level 3 garrison with at least a level 1 menagerie per character it's possible to collect 200 charms from that alone per day, but what casual pet battler has 25 level 100s, or the gold for level 3 garrisons on that many chars. The menagerie daily quest being per char and not account-wide might change for Legion as well, which would make the acquisition of charms even slower.
With one level 100 right now one can round up about 47 with worst possible RNG or 64 with best (24 from WoD tamers, 8-10 from garrison, 15-30 from Tanaan) ... that's not even a dent in the current alpha price of the bag, oh boy. Either way it looks like it will be a lot of daily quests to get the currency together.

If we take 800 unique pets as a guesstimate for the amount of pets we'll have available at Legion launch, getting one bag with a stone that can actually be used to upgrade a pet and isn't just a duplicate, for example undead, per day will take 2 years and a bit to upgrade all of them.

[Blue_frog]

The big thing I don't really care about is the total time investment this *could* take. It's alpha, so things are subject to change, but assuming the 200 charms per stays. How quickly can you amass 200 charms? once every day, once ever few days? With over 700 pets, how many years will it take to upgrade the whole collection. You can currently fully level your collection and rarify it in *months" time (I did it in 3-4 months...can be faster than how I did it). This is could be a huge leap in time investment. I've never been a fan of super long time investments (I.E. year long). Hopefully there will be additional ways to do this if it stays.

Average Joe pet battler (we'll say 4 100s for math sake)

60 charms a day. It would take around 7-8 years assuming RNG was always in your favor

[Dalandius]

Yes but how may are Legion fights going to get you? Right now I do not think Legion Tamers are in the Alpha yet?

[Merana]

Yes but how may are Legion fights going to get you? Right now I do not think Legion Tamers are in the Alpha yet?

Wowhead currently lists 5 new Legion tamer quests rewarding pet charms, and the WoD ones apparently rewarding 2 charms instead of 4 in Legion.

http://legion.wowhead.com/item=116415/p ... ard-from-q

[Nelaphim]

If it will take more than '2 years' (the average WoW Expansion lifespan), then they should make it quicker. I would rather closer to 1 year if you do it every day, but I will take what pet battle content I can at this point.


If it is purely cosmetic, I will not bother, however.

[Avalee]

I'm only a collector so I don't bother too much about level and rarity. However, if epic pets are a requirement to collect new pets, I won't be happy.
I'm still struggling to get the right pets to max and rare for the Panda tournament. Having to do that another time for a future tournament or a 'beat 200 players to get this new pet' achievement will be torture for collectors.

[Dalandius]

Yes but how may are Legion fights going to get you? Right now I do not think Legion Tamers are in the Alpha yet?

Wowhead currently lists 5 new Legion tamer quests rewarding pet charms, and the WoD ones apparently rewarding 2 charms instead of 4 in Legion.

http://legion.wowhead.com/item=116415/p ... ard-from-q

Interesting I would have thought they would increased the rewards outside of the garrison in order to get you out of it but it seem from the information that the reverse is happening. Nerfing the WoD tamers while making the Legion tamers less than the pets in the battle area means in just encourages people to go back to the garrison.

[Drudatz]

No one's collection should ever be complete and stagnant.

apart from a VERY FEW nones ever will be. Cause there are new pets added (be it in game, in store) each xpac and because of all the tcg pets and raf pets you still have to get. So thats a VERY bad argument to claim the stones are needed....

It's also an equally bad argument against them.

NO, its not. As someone said on the us forum:
the development should be vertikal not horizontal....