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Advice for PvP newbie

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Axarien
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Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Axarien » March 30th, 2015, 10:36 am

Hi friends! I've been thinking about giving PVP battles a try, but am a little overwhelmed as to where to start for a team. I have a pretty large pet collection, can go get whatever breeds leveled that might be helpful, etc., and honestly that's the part that's kind of overwhelming.

Does anyone have any basic tips for getting started? Is it better to try to counter a specific common team, or try a something more general in strengths? Links to your favorite discussion post or site would also be appreciated.

Thanks!

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Tekulve2012
 
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Tekulve2012 » March 30th, 2015, 5:36 pm

Pet PvP takes practice simply to anticipate what your opponent will start with and to know what they will do from then on

You get to know the typical moves and team types..generally ,pet PvP is awash with:
Undead pets, humanoids, aquatics,mechs and elementals..

You may get a smattering of beasts and critters but not so many in my exp.

These pets will do very well on any team-in my opinion:
S/s fiendish imp
P/p emperor crab
S/s jademist dancer
S/s ore eater

Then, widely reviled (because they're good )pets:
Anubisath(a great counter to weebomination with sandstorm)
MechPandaren dragonling
Ghastly kid
Fragment of anger
Teroclaw hatchling
Sister of temptation(humanoid counter)-s/b breed is great
Blighthawk-go for the 273 speed one

Dabble with different comps...be patient if you get rofl-stomped...it happens

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Sternish
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Sternish » March 30th, 2015, 5:55 pm

Discodoggy's Pet PvP blog is an amazing resource for PvP information, i.e. How to build a good team, his own personal battles and why he put certain teams together, play by play battles he's fought, etc.

It's really a great place to help up your PvP game.

http://www.pvppetbattles.com

PS - Check out the section "Daily Battles". It's awesome :mrgreen:
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Kpb321
 
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Kpb321 » March 30th, 2015, 8:33 pm

My first tip is to realize that pet PVP is different than the trainer or CT. The average win rate for everyone doing PVP has to be 50/50 because every time you win someone else has to loose so aiming for a team that is a sure fire win is nearly impossible. Every team has a counter and you can't win all your games. It helps to not get discouraged if you set your expectations correctly.

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Vek
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Vek » March 31st, 2015, 3:58 am

I'll copy a post I did in the 1001 Pet Battle Tips sticky.
----
One problem many have in pvp is that they are too predictable. Always using attacks in the same order for example. You really need to mix it up sometimes.

Example. Facing a Kun-Lai Runt they usually do Frost Shock -> Deep Freeze. Unless you are down to the last pet, just switch pets after Frosth Shock and their 100% stun will drop to 25%. Sure sometimes you will still get stunned but much less likely.

Direhorns are also often very predictable, and will be even more so after 5.4 when Trihorn Charge will get a 1 turn CD. It is often very easy to first avoid the Primal Cry, which will then screw them out of their Horn Attack stun. Or just plan your own moves according to if Horn Attack is off CD. But facing a competent Direhorn player is surely a pain.

Another thing I love is when facing an opponent with Cocoon Strike. Often it's easy to predict when they will use it. If they are faster, which they often are, I just pass that turn. I get hit for about 100 dmg or so. Then when I am faster I use a two turn attack like Burrow or Lift-Off. This means they will miss their attack when they attack from the cocoon and in the turn after they are faster again and got nothing to hit, meaning two wasted turns for them.

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Celya
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Celya » March 31st, 2015, 5:46 am

Kpb321 wrote:The average win rate for everyone doing PVP has to be 50/50 because every time you win someone else has to loose so aiming for a team that is a sure fire win is nearly impossible. Every team has a counter and you can't win all your games. It helps to not get discouraged if you set your expectations correctly.


^This is a great starting point. Too many people get discouraged by losing, but honestly, there's really no such thing as a 100% win rate team. Sure, some people, experienced people mostly, can anticipate better and will win more often, but no one wins 100% of the time.

As for getting started, you can read up on strategies and guides all you want, but in the end, it's a learn-by-doing situation. I'd pick 3 relatively strong pets, that you already have, or can easily level, and start with a team around those. Play it several times, try to not run away if the tide goes against you, try if you can see what makes a pet good or not. Play around with different combinations until you find one you like.

You don't have to stick with the sometimes reviled OP pets, but they're a good place to start to build confidence with. Personally I nowadays have a greater success rate playing with pets I like (Hello, Servant of Demidos) than when I play with pets I know to be strong in pvp but dislike (Byebye, Weebomination). But way back when I first tried PVP, I was only able to win when I had my (then OP) S/S Death Adder Hatchling out.

Arcana wrote:can go get whatever breeds leveled that might be helpful


One difference between PVP and PVE is that breeds often matter more in PVP. Sure, sometimes the "best breed" depends on how you want to use the pet, eg I use my P/P Ore Eater just as often as my S/S. But if you're picking a Fiendish Imp, really, dude, just get the speed breed.

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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Jchertudi86 » March 31st, 2015, 10:07 am

I was a big pet battler since early MoP but didn't start PVP pet battling until a few months into this expansion. However I already have over 200 wins so I've learned a lot.

Here's some things I have learned:
1. It takes awhile to learn how to create teams with synergy (reading discodoggy's blog is good primer but for me I needed to really see it in action)
2. At the start of your journey it will seem like everyone is running stupid OP teams and winning just means using dumb setups. While there are a lot of people running dumb teams, I've found that over time, they are not the majority.
3. You will start to really enjoy it once you've found "your team." For me it was Yu'la, Iron Starlette, and Pygmy Cow. Not the greatest team but it started bringing me a lot of wins when before I had been facing a lot of defeats. Don't rely on this to carry you to an endless string of victories... let it boost your confidence, but remember you need to find more teams you can play with.
4. Know when you lost because you played badly, and when you lost because you were just countered. Sometimes, your 3 pets just don't stand a chance against their 3 pets. Accept it and move on. If you played badly, then you've learned something.
5. Switching pets is often necessary in PVP and so I feel this places a huge extra emphasis on the speed stat. Going first (either from speed or abilities like Surge) makes a huge difference. Switch in a slow pet and you'll find you're nearly dead before you've even attacked the enemy once.
6. Learn how to play AND counter the popular "team types" in PVP. Right now these are AOE teams, Call Darkness teams, Clonedance (cyclone + rain dance) teams, and Sunlight healing teams (at least for most battles I encounter). If these are the types you come up against the most, then obviously if you want to win, you must learn how to defeat them. Remember, they are popular because they are trickier to counter.
7. Eventually, you will find the joy in developing new teams. Once you find "your team" eventually mindlessly winning will grow old (or you'll start to lose and get frustrated). You have to enjoy thinking up and trying out new teams to enjoy pvp pet battles, I think. This is where #4 is so important: many, many times I come up with a team that isn't bad but I run into a counter team on its first outing and get stomped. I'll usually shelve the team for awhile and bring it back later. Sometimes I find its a viable team after all... sometimes it isn't.

I'm not yet a "veteran" compared to many here but, as a somewhat new pvp pet battler myself, this is some of my advice.

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Axarien
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Axarien » March 31st, 2015, 3:26 pm

Great tips, thank you so much!

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Drudatz
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Drudatz » April 1st, 2015, 8:51 am

Kpb321 wrote:My first tip is to realize that pet PVP is different than the trainer or CT. The average win rate for everyone doing PVP has to be 50/50 because every time you win someone else has to loose so aiming for a team that is a sure fire win is nearly impossible. Every team has a counter and you can't win all your games. It helps to not get discouraged if you set your expectations correctly.
Sorry but your math fails you! HARD! My own win ratio atm is 89% and Im surly not the best player out there.

Sternish wrote:Discodoggy's Pet PvP blog is an amazing resource for PvP information, i.e. How to build a good team, his own personal battles and why he put certain teams together, play by play battles he's fought, etc.
It's really a great place to help up your PvP game.
No, its not... thats like saying look at that dude at youtube playing an ore eater, a terrorclaw and an valkyr and win 10 games in a row. Ofc he wont show you the games he looses, so the new player thinks "wow thats the best team to play, so I get these pets and I am unbeatable" and then he faces of against me looses ten times in a row and gives up because he doesnt understands why he lost.

Tekulve2012 wrote:Pet PvP takes practice simply to anticipate what your opponent will start with and to know what they will do from then on
THIS is the best tip in this thread - practice, practice and learn thats all you can do.
my most played team is DAH, Anubis, Magical Craw. pratice taught me what they can counter and what they cant (3x crow Im looking at you!) I know exactly when my opponent uses a pet switch, wich pet will come on, I learned how easy the crawdad eats the atm popular Terrorclaw, I know that an Anubis can solo put down a 3xsun team (Yes it might take just a "little" time like my last ride against 3 Sunflowers wich took me 879 rounds ~3hours to beat down)

All this you only learn by practice which is the most important in pvp pet battles.
(oh and ofc patience to not bite into your table when you loose)

Addon wise its good to have something to save teams with
(I prefer Pet Battle Teams other ReMatch) and PokemonTrainer to see what abilities your opponents pet have and their ability cooldowns.

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Kpb321
 
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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Kpb321 » April 1st, 2015, 10:45 am

Drudatz wrote:
Kpb321 wrote:My first tip is to realize that pet PVP is different than the trainer or CT. The average win rate for everyone doing PVP has to be 50/50 because every time you win someone else has to loose so aiming for a team that is a sure fire win is nearly impossible. Every team has a counter and you can't win all your games. It helps to not get discouraged if you set your expectations correctly.
Sorry but your math fails you! HARD! My own win ratio atm is 89% and Im surly not the best player out there.


Nope. If you are winning 89% of your games it's because someone else or a lot of other people are winning less than 50% of the time. It's really simple. Every game is between two people so if someone wins someone has to loose. So as a whole the win rate has to be 50/50 (well actually slightly less than that because there is a small chance for a tie). You may not think you are all that great but winning 90% of the time is doing very well and you must have good team and are probably getting favorable match ups with it.

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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Tekulve2012 » April 1st, 2015, 7:23 pm

Hiya

I never post on WCP to slam anyone's comments for nothing..I will simply say this...if you have any win rate in pet PvP near 90%+...It may result in very little learning

I have 2k pet PvP wins. I believe my losses are more valuable. From losses, I see flaws in my choices and I allow myself to try new pets and new attack combos

To each his or her own....I always try to win..but winning is not a challenge...if you field only OP teams that are loaded with top tier pets, its a cake-walk to wins...

I want to try at least one 'new' pet every set of battles...even if 1 of my 3 pets is a magic or critter pet that so few people run with
I figure I have little to lose and more to gain regardless of the end result

PS.. Drudatz...you should earn a trophy, a medal and a free store pet for winning that marathon..and the right to stomp sunflowers in game with your toon :D

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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Vapid » April 1st, 2015, 9:31 pm

Certain pets do allow for advantages in situations - like all things. Generally having faster pets gives you an advantage, but with undead pets because of their immortal round it is often better to have a larger health pool. The tips and tricks are something that will accumulate the more you play and more encounter new setups.

I personally started pvp with a Darkness team because it is incredibly easy to play. In fact a number of 3x of the same pet team are easy to play and generally fast. Perhaps not the most entertaining, but the key at the start is to play games and experience pvp. And realize you will lose and win.

But perhaps the thing that helped me in pvp the most are the addons: Pokemon Trainer being the one I would recommend the most. The addon gives you an easy visual display of the pets, abilities, strong/weak, counters, and cooldowns. This allows you to track your moves and plays - decide if you want to use your weather effect or stun the opponent to your advantage or their disadvantage. Eventually this becomes a non issue as you learn how certain pets are played.

Also every meta is different. For example Clonedance is a team play style that was mentioned. Besides myself playing it, I have only ran into it ONCE in over 1750 pvp wins. Also Sunlight healing teams on my meta ... I think I have played 3 and beat them all. The reason I bring it up, is that your meta may be swarming with certain teams and therefore it would be in your best interest to run a counter team.

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Re: Advice for PvP newbie

Postby Jerebear » April 2nd, 2015, 6:44 am

Sternish wrote:Discodoggy's Pet PvP blog is an amazing resource for PvP information, i.e. How to build a good team, his own personal battles and why he put certain teams together, play by play battles he's fought, etc.

It's really a great place to help up your PvP game.

http://www.pvppetbattles.com

PS - Check out the section "Daily Battles". It's awesome :mrgreen:


I'll second this. I haven't seen any other PvP pet battler go to the level of detail that he does (or at least publish the level of detail he does). He'll spend weeks or months playing with a pet, trying it on different teams and different movesets, and documents wins/losses/draws on it. He'll expound on why he lost with it (was it because he misplayed it or the moveset he chose or the team it was on or the current meta or was it simply just a sucky pet) or why he won with it so much. There is a treasure trove of data dating back to MoP times. It really helps a new player to understand how / why they won or lost (assuming they actually read the blog/daily battle sections rather than just scan for a team and run with it).
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829


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