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Sunflowers and Crawdad

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Taleranor
 
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Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Taleranor » February 8th, 2015, 11:35 pm

I'm sorry. I need to vent.
I keep seeing someone run double Sunflower and Crawdad team, and it is just... annoying.
I feel cheap when I lose to it, and I feel cheap when I forfeit rather than put up with the eternal healing antics, and I feel even cheaper when I'm forced to field a team solely to fight it. (And I feel cheapest yet when I field a team to fight this jerk, go through the motions, and end up forfeiting out of boredom or losing due to some reason or another.)

What sort of self-respecting person says "Y'know, I want to run the sort of team that hardly anyone likes or respects. I want to get my wins solely because people are going to be sick of me and don't want to spend twenty minutes whittling me down."

I mean, there are a lot of team variants I hate. All mechanical teams that hide behind decoys. Teams that field Ragnaros or Molten Corgi where you can't hit them for several rounds while little things explode. Teams that run Val'kyr. Iron Starlets where you don't know if it's going to unleash a big hit on the second round, or a huge hit on the third round. People who use their pet names to trash talk the opponent. AOE teams that spam Weebomination or Fossilized Hatchling.

But it's good old Sunflower/Crawdad that, well, sticks in my craw. And while we should never judge someone based on their team... I'm totally judging them, and it's not in their favor.

Sigh. I'm glad there's no penalty when you forfeit.

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Yvonnek
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Yvonnek » February 9th, 2015, 4:26 am

I use three Nexus Whelpling, one P/S and the other two P/B Use Arcane Storm and Mana Surge away, if Sunflower changes the weather swap the next one in and your good to go, Tail Swipe also hits very hard. I have owned many of the duel sunflower-Crawdad teams i i love the whelplings.

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Topaz
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Topaz » February 9th, 2015, 9:23 am

There is a person (now turned to personS) in my realm who runs a sunflower, sun sproutling, blossoming enciant team which is horribe and long every time takes forever to beat. Now I keep runing into:
1. Someone with a terror puddle, sun sproutling, and a switching pet.
2. Someone with a Golden Dawnfeather, terror puddle and son of sethe.

Sunlight should realy get a nerf, either by its CD, by its duration or by the healing buff it gives.

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Awq
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Awq » February 9th, 2015, 10:13 am

I played a lot of Puddle Terror, Sun Sproutling, and Ashleaf Spriteling (after the Garrison dailies were released). I think I have played it for a week or so.

It however isn't the same as a Sunflower team. The team is made around doing damage, and bursting targets down with combos. If your opponent plays a defensive team, you can utilize terror puddle's/sun sproutling's healing to gain the advantage. But you simply kill people as fast as you can!

Puddle Terror healing isn't influenced by Sunlight (except the standard bonus), unlike the Sunflower/Blossoming Ancient. It's similar to a Reindeer.

Sun Sproutling only has Photosynthesis, and does not have Sunlight. It plays very similar to a Jade Tentacle (or Sunflower with Early Advantage instead of Sunlight)! It simply needs a weather setter.

This is a predictable team. It relies on combos between pets. It lacks adaptability, and the pets do not have self-supporting move-sets (unlike most popular pets).

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Abbotta
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Abbotta » February 9th, 2015, 10:40 am

I think your complaints are the reason why I haven't ventured into PvP yet. If I were to run in those type of combos again and again I would also find it equally as frustrating (I also don't have a Sunflower/Magical Crawdad so that's another story).

But in the end maybe I need to get over it. Because in the end I like idea of Battle Pets because I don't have to worry about fighting against someone who might be using an auto-bot or just happens to be overly more co-ordinated then I am. And I feel that as long as I have a wide selection of top level 25 pets I should be fine (I mean someone said they run with the 3 Nexus Whelpings against the Sunflower/Magic Crawdad - I have that!).

Maybe I need to get over my angst and just do it.

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Skavenged
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Skavenged » February 9th, 2015, 11:54 am

Yvonnek wrote:I use three Nexus Whelpling, one P/S and the other two P/B Use Arcane Storm and Mana Surge away, if Sunflower changes the weather swap the next one in and your good to go, Tail Swipe also hits very hard. I have owned many of the duel sunflower-Crawdad teams i i love the whelplings.


Unless someone else is running this exact comp, I ran into you a few times last night. Very hard hitting team, and I'm guessing it faces off well with a lot of different opponents. Luckily, I didn't face you enough times to become annoying. Otherwise, i would have busted out my triple MPD team on ya :)

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Celya
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Celya » February 9th, 2015, 12:52 pm

Abbotta wrote:Maybe I need to get over my angst and just do it.


^Pretty much this.

Once you have a reasonable number of lvl 25 pets, and a slightly more than basic understanding of pet battles, the only way to get over said angst is to close your eyes and jump in.

I'm (very slowly) making my way towards the 1000 pvp pet battles for the title I want for reasons I can no longer remember, and I found it helpful to start with just aiming at the weekly quest for 10 wins. I'm up to only 400-and-something now, but the pvp battles have become more enjoyable along the way and I now often aim for more than that.

Taleranor wrote:And while we should never judge someone based on their team... I'm totally judging them, and it's not in their favor.


Yeah, that's how I feel every time I face off against that guy with the 3-of-the-same-kind teams (3 moths / 3 MPD / 3 Fiendish Imps / 3 Direhorns...)

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Kel
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Kel » February 9th, 2015, 12:54 pm

I think it all comes down to what's the "in team" for now. I don't see it as any different than running into endless DaH-Valk teams like we did in MoP. You just have to find the counter and that team will stop being so popular.

It's really the nature of PvP.
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Tekulve2012
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Tekulve2012 » February 9th, 2015, 8:12 pm

An s/s jademist dancer can smash any elemental pet...

A Crow or Gilnean Raven have Darkness which depresses all that healing and blasts the Crawdad

An s/s fiendish imp can grab any healing buffs your opponent uses and control the Wish use with nether gate

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Awq
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Awq » February 10th, 2015, 1:38 am

Abbotta wrote:I think your complaints are the reason why I haven't ventured into PvP yet. If I were to run in those type of combos again and again I would also find it equally as frustrating (I also don't have a Sunflower/Magical Crawdad so that's another story).

But in the end maybe I need to get over it. Because in the end I like idea of Battle Pets because I don't have to worry about fighting against someone who might be using an auto-bot or just happens to be overly more co-ordinated then I am. And I feel that as long as I have a wide selection of top level 25 pets I should be fine (I mean someone said they run with the 3 Nexus Whelpings against the Sunflower/Magic Crawdad - I have that!).

Maybe I need to get over my angst and just do it.

You should! At least try a few teams to see if you enjoy it. It is not for everyone, but it can be lots of fun.

You will start out winning only a few matches. But when you ask yourself "Could I have done anything better" you will quickly increase your winrate.

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Vek
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Vek » February 10th, 2015, 5:42 am

Even after Poison Fang nerf I find Kovok works exceptionally well against Sunflowers/Crawdads.

Poison Fang + Black Claw pretty much nullifies the healing advantage. The only "problem" is the choice between Pheromones and Digest Brains.

Pheromones works really well since Sunflowers often switch to the back line, and with black claw + poison + pheromones ticking their double Sunlight healing isn't noticable.

With Digest Brains on the other hand neither the Sunflower or the Crawdad, especially in Sunlight, will have much chance to kill the Kovok. You can readily heal while poison ticks for good damage with Black Claw. Important to always keep black claw up.

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Kendrah
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Kendrah » February 10th, 2015, 8:20 am

Taleranor wrote:But it's good old Sunflower/Crawdad that, well, sticks in my craw. And while we should never judge someone based on their team... I'm totally judging them, and it's not in their favor..


I hate this set-up too. It's just so boring but, well, at least it isn't the Unborn/DAH/whatever teams that basically made you have counter teams for them alone since 95% of the people you battled were up against them. It probably won't get fixed for a while (if ever.) Perhaps they think if someone is willing to have a battle last an hour when they could've done 20 battles during that time then they probably deserve the win? I dunno.

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Rendigar
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Rendigar » February 10th, 2015, 11:44 am

Just remember they could be trying for the 5 wins with no pets dying achievement, and that comp is one of the ways to get it. But all it takes is for them to run into 1 person who can counter it and they have to start over, which means they stay in the queue with that comp longer and you get to see them more often than you'd like. So don't judge them too harshly, blame Blizzard for making an achievement that the only way to get it is to either have an OP team and run into 5 noobs in a row OR the super-annoying all-heals team that can take 5+ hours to get the wins.

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Vetteranger
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Vetteranger » February 10th, 2015, 1:03 pm

Just a hint ... Xu-Fu will solo Sunflower teams ... admittedly it takes a while. However, he does more damage than them and heals to full health on cooldown. So every swap the sunflowers have slightly less health.

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Taleranor
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Taleranor » February 12th, 2015, 2:16 am

I just had to go 57 freaking rounds with one of these freaking teams because my Emperor Crab was almost evenly matched with his Magical Crawdad, and he kept swapping the sunflowers in and out so I couldn't quite kill them quickly enough.

/tears hair out.

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Skavenged
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Skavenged » February 12th, 2015, 8:49 am

Whenever I see these types of teams, I always assume one of two things: either this person is going for the achieve for consecutive PvP wins, OR this person isn't very good at pet battles and is looking for easy wins via forfeit.

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Taleranor
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Taleranor » February 12th, 2015, 2:29 pm

Skavenged wrote:Whenever I see these types of teams, I always assume one of two things: either this person is going for the achieve for consecutive PvP wins, OR this person isn't very good at pet battles and is looking for easy wins via forfeit.


I assume the latter because the only reason teams like this generally exist is to annoy your opponent or demoralize them.
I mean hey, I don't mind it when someone forfeits against me, but at least I don't go out there with the sole purpose of making people quit in disgust. :)

Yesterday, I ran into 4 different versions of the double sunflower team, where the 3rd member was a bloodfeather, a sproutling, Chi-Chi, and of course crawdad. My anti-sunflower team got quite a workout... especially when I fought the same sunflower/crawdad three times in a row and won all three times, leading to the epic matchup above where it took 57 rounds to put down that darn crawdad.

I wish I could think I'd taught him a lesson.

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Skavenged
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby Skavenged » February 13th, 2015, 10:09 am

I've found that kovok is an excellent counter to most heal teams. Thanks to his own heals, he can usually outheal their DPS, and black claw plus poison outdps's their heals. Even better, kovok is a pretty versatile pet and can be used with lots of different teams, so you don't have to build a direct counter. Which means you don't get slaughtered by the non-heal teams you bump in to

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JEC
 
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Re: Sunflowers and Crawdad

Postby JEC » February 13th, 2015, 4:50 pm

Three words: Toothy, Snarly, Chuck.


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