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Grommloc - thoughts

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Luciandk » October 31st, 2014, 8:57 pm

Just fininished leveling wee Grommloc.

He stats out at P/S with quite odd base stats.

1197 health
330 power
289 speed

Being this fragile, it pretty much makes Giants Blood a must pick, which chains into Mighty Charge. With the pick of slot 1 depending on pet faced.

2 ways to open. if the enemy pet is slower than you, you want to hit slot 1 in first round. Then giants blood in round 2, as you dont want to waste the heal.

But if the enemy pet is faster, you open with giants blood to null the initial hit and buffing the Mighty charge comming next.


Cant really see much of an use for Clobber+Takedown. Stuns is not good to use in pve pet battles, and Grommloc is really too fragile to last long without Giants Blood.

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Rendigar
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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Rendigar » November 3rd, 2014, 10:57 am

Well in PvE the main use I have for stuns is leveling pets from 1, the addition of Giant's Blood means that unlike the bear I usually use, he can keep himself topped off (Giant's Blood, Clobber, swap in carry pet, swap in clean-up pet, usually the Feline Familiar, Raptor or Molten Hathcling). I'll need to swap him in and see, too bad I don't have any level 1's left...

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Drudatz
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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Drudatz » November 3rd, 2014, 5:12 pm

Hes pretty useless in pvp.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Poofah » November 3rd, 2014, 6:11 pm

He's pretty bad. I don't think they had a clear idea about what they wanted him to be. The original iteration was a fragile one-trick pony whose trick was potentially rather brutal (Dominance+Whirlwind, and then Giant's Blood+Whirlwind). Then they took his trick away and replaced it with Mighty Charge, which is extremely bad at only 32 base dmg. Consequently he is loaded up on power and speed, but the power doesn't do enough because his abilities are too weak, and the speed doesn't do enough because he's only up to 289. And obviously 1197 health is not enough for the humanoid passive to be valuable, especially when Clobber and Giant's Blood don't trigger the humanoid heal.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Gardenvariety » November 4th, 2014, 5:27 pm

I think he is exactly what he should be: unique moveset, unique stats, unique look, but not overpowered. I hate hate hate the idea of blizzard selling pets for $40 (or even the $10 pet store ones) that are superior to all the other pets available through in game means. If it was up to me Murloc, Ragnaros, Altarac Brew Pup, and the Pandaren Monk would be nerfed a bit too.

edit: I mean Murkalot, not Murloc

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Luciandk » November 5th, 2014, 4:57 am

Well they clearly wanted to avoid making another Murkalot, whom was a metachanger and punishing those whom didnt have him. But they went overboard and did not make Gromloc terribly useful in pet battles.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Vek » November 5th, 2014, 7:57 am

Yes, it's a thin line to walk on. Though Murkalot is still broken(too good) even with the nerf it got. It is not fun if it swings to far the other way and make the pets never used at all.

Still I'm pretty happy the avoided the Supercharge + Whirlwind set it had at the time I first saw it.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Poofah » November 5th, 2014, 1:59 pm

RI could stand a minor nerf. But in terms of flavor/design/innovation, Murk was a huge success, and is still almost certainly the gold standard for Blizzcon/CE-type pets. I'd much much rather have current Murk than a useless version.

Gromm definitely went too far in the 'safe' direction. Mighty Charge is not just underpowered: it's boring and therefore predictably underpowered. Nobody is going to experiment with Grommloc teams because there's no potential for undiscovered synergies. He's just a single-target damage spammer with mediocre stats, and abilities that are inferior in a direct comparison to other pets'.

They had comparatively much more time to design/implement Murk, so maybe that's not a fair standard to hold the CE/Blizzcon pets to. But it's inevitable that people will compare and be disappointed.

It's probably wise that they backed off from Dominance+Whirlwind, simply because AoE really doesn't need more weapons right now, but I'm not convinced it would have been that bad with these stats. Dominance is only +100%, not like Supercharge, so Dom+WW with Gromm would have been 1155 dmg in 2 turns, while being very vulnerable to disruption at 289 speed. RI+Bonestorm is 1462 in 2 turns; Acid Rain+Dreadful Breath is 932 dmg in 2 turns with PP Droplet. It's really not that crazy.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Mezmaron » November 5th, 2014, 6:21 pm

Poofah wrote:RI could stand a minor nerf. But in terms of flavor/design/innovation, Murk was a huge success, and is still almost certainly the gold standard for Blizzcon/CE-type pets. I'd much much rather have current Murk than a useless version.

Gromm definitely went too far in the 'safe' direction. Mighty Charge is not just underpowered: it's boring and therefore predictably underpowered. Nobody is going to experiment with Grommloc teams because there's no potential for undiscovered synergies. He's just a single-target damage spammer with mediocre stats, and abilities that are inferior in a direct comparison to other pets'.

They had comparatively much more time to design/implement Murk, so maybe that's not a fair standard to hold the CE/Blizzcon pets to. But it's inevitable that people will compare and be disappointed.

It's probably wise that they backed off from Dominance+Whirlwind, simply because AoE really doesn't need more weapons right now, but I'm not convinced it would have been that bad with these stats. Dominance is only +100%, not like Supercharge, so Dom+WW with Gromm would have been 1155 dmg in 2 turns, while being very vulnerable to disruption at 289 speed. RI+Bonestorm is 1462 in 2 turns; Acid Rain+Dreadful Breath is 932 dmg in 2 turns with PP Droplet. It's really not that crazy.



Couldn't agree more with all of this (something I can say to most Poofah posts). Although I'd prefer no nerf for RI. Murk's one of my favorite pets and was really looking forward to another pet with similar usefulness this year so I'm pretty bummed about how bad Gromm is. Hoping they revisit him but I won't hold my breath. I'd like to see more of the store/blizzcon pets on par with some of the best in game pets and many of the older ones could use some buffs. I don't mind spending the money but they should be worthwhile battlers imo.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Gardenvariety » November 5th, 2014, 7:35 pm

I guess it's just a difference of opinion. I don't think the pets that cost cash should be the best battle pets, in my perfect world they would all be basically vanity pets: cool looking, unique moves and movesets, interesting animations, and yes they should be decent and useable in battles, but I would never make them so good that people start building their entire PvP team around them like they did with Murkalot.

I think you're dead on in that it's a very fine line they try to walk.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Digem » November 7th, 2014, 6:59 am

It is a no win situation for blizz.
If too strong then the cries of pay to win come out like with murklot.
And if like he is kinda meh then those they have bought him feel it kinda was a waste of money.
I am a collector so I would of bought him any way my biggest complaint is he has next to no animation.
He just is kinda there I wish he would have done something cool.
I am fine that he is t the best battler because if OP then it is t fair.
But have some cool animation murkalot was always doing something and most pets do and I think pay for pets should have some cool thing they do.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Poofah » November 7th, 2014, 11:42 am

Digem wrote:I am fine that he is t the best battler because if OP then it is t fair.
But have some cool animation murkalot was always doing something and most pets do and I think pay for pets should have some cool thing they do.


Mostly agree, except there should be plenty of room to give CE/Blizzcon pets interesting/distinctive movesets, without making them OP like Murk. They've really nailed it in a few cases, for example Frosty/Lil Deathwing/Netherwhelp/Treasure Goblin. These are all useful and fun to battle with, but I've never heard anyone complain they're overpowered.

I mean, Gromm isn't *that* bad -- he's far more interesting than Quilen Pup, for example. But he could really stand to have Mighty Charge turn into something a bit more creative, graphically and battle-wise.

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Saasan
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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Saasan » November 10th, 2014, 1:40 pm

I guess I'm the only one who likes him. :lol: He's not amazing, but I definitely will get a lot of use out of him as a "guardian" pet while lvling lowbies in Valley of Four Winds. I can also see some potential use for him against Yu'la or Lucky Yi.

Also--I had him soloing groups at lvl 18 (against VoFW mobs), so he's really not so bad. I can't imagine him doing well in PVP, though. And he REALLY needs an interesting idle animation.

EDIT: Okay, my sleep-deprived brain somehow didn't realize that Grommloc yells and scares nearby critters, so I suppose that counts toward an idle animation.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Siegurd333 » November 10th, 2014, 6:36 pm

I kind of wish they had made him a tank. Grom is the orc with the "iron will" in that web series they made. High health with a Lil'XT heartbreak style move or counter attack gimmick would have been a perfect fit for Grom. Last year's Blizzcon pet was also pretty fragile.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Luciandk » November 10th, 2014, 9:42 pm

Murkalot fragile? He have 1449 hp, slightly above the standard of 1400. Plus Shieldstorm is a strong defensive.

Grommloc doesnt push it beyond 1197 hp.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Vek » November 11th, 2014, 3:06 am

I have been facing this guy a few times now. The heal is quite powerful and he is not really that squishy. In one battle it also surprised me by almost nuking my critter with strong attacks.

I think the most inventive way I have seen it used is with partner with Anicent Blessing, together with the self-heal this up's Grommloc Health to above 1300. Another opponent used Murkalot - RI -> Mighty Charge, for some huge damage but that is more on account of RI of course.

Still I would not like to have a Grommlock in back line when facing a BONESTORM opponent.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Jerebear » November 11th, 2014, 8:08 am

I wonder if any good Yu'la / Gromloc teams exist. Seems like a good candidate for Celestial Blessing.
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Melfice
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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Melfice » November 11th, 2014, 5:00 pm

Jerebear wrote:I wonder if any good Yu'la / Gromloc teams exist. Seems like a good candidate for Celestial Blessing.


Good question, and I was thinking today that Yu'la and Grommloc would be a good setup...I need to think of a third pet, but I'll be giving them a try in PvP this week. Maybe I'll go with a DPS pet for the third, or a more support type pets to better protect Grommloc.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Melfice » November 24th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Jerebear wrote:I wonder if any good Yu'la / Grommloc teams exist. Seems like a good candidate for Celestial Blessing.


I put together a team last night to see how it would go. Yu'la, Grommloc and Soul of the Forge. Yu'la was killed because of an Unborn's Haunt, but I was able to have the Soul of the Forge tank very well. The Unborn owned me tho. After Yu'la died, Grommloc was left vs Unborn, and that was all she wrote. I was able to kill two of his pets, but I'm not giving up just yet

It was just one battle, and I need to change Yu'la's moves around I think. Lift Off might be better to have than Life Exchange. But Jadefire Lightning was a waste without more AoE. I'm going to cont testing tonight, and I think I'm going to use a Blossoming Ancient in the place of the Soul of the Forge (even tho he did very well last night).

Also, I think a rabbit or Prairie Mouse might work very well with Yu'la and Grommloc. I face a lot of Unborn, and I would love to counter it. Yu'la, Grommloc and a Prairie Mouse/Spring Rabbit might be a lot of fun.

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Re: Grommloc - thoughts

Postby Melfice » November 25th, 2014, 12:38 pm

Last night I did some PvP matches to test out Yu'la, Grommloc and a Prairie Mouse/Spring Rabbit comp. I did not use the Prairie Mouse, but I did use the Spring Rabbit. I had a lot of fun with this comp. At first, I was losing the battles, but I got better as I got more exp with this team. Grommloc with Celestial Blessing was awesome. He was able to dish out damage, and tank at the same time. Even without Celestial Blessing, the Giant's Blood kept Grommloc alive pretty well.

Yu'la AoE move was worth keeping, but I still want to try battles without it. The same goes with Life Exchange too. Most of the battles Life Exchange did not make much of a difference really (if I face a Stall team...Life Exchange would own). I need to find what works best for Yu'la, and I think Lift Off would be nice to have. We will see what happens soon enough.

Oh, and it OWNS having a Rabbit against an Unborn Val’kyr! It messes up their game plan, and the undead pet dies fast. I'm very happy with the Spring Rabbit on my team. And with Celestial Blessing, he can take a lot of damage before using Dodge, and Burrow etc.

Good times indeed.

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