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Tail Sweep change on beta

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Quintessence
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Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Quintessence » October 23rd, 2014, 4:05 pm

This was pointed out to me on Twitter, but I think it's worth discussing here. Do you agree/like this change? How will it impact PVP and PVE teams (if at all)?

http://wod.wowhead.com/petability=122

Current Tail Sweep - Deals 307 Dragonkin damage. Deals 119 additional damage if the user is slower than the enemy.

Beta Tail Sweep - Deals 307 Dragonkin damage, or 427 Dragonkin damage if the user strikes last.
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Vek
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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Vek » October 23rd, 2014, 4:17 pm

As long as they avoid the Arcane Slash bug(same speed no attack) I feel this is better. The attacks will not get double penalty against Shell-type abilities for example.

Though it might be dangerous to make similar move to Conflagrate or Mana Surge for example, since they hit hard enough as is. i.e. if they fulfil the requirement they make one even bigger hit. Escpecially Mana Surge on Nexus Whelpling.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Jerebear » October 23rd, 2014, 4:35 pm

It does hurt the scourged whelpling quite a bit. Reduces it's healing by 1/3.
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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Kpb321 » October 23rd, 2014, 4:57 pm

I know it will impact using it again magic pets as it will be a single strong hit against them instead of two hits and could easily end up with it being capped. When the DMF comes to beta again I'll have to log in and try Fesal as it may cause problems on my strat there. I don't think the first two hits with the debuff will be enough to get him below 35% for the last hit to finish him off and I'm pretty sure the magic racial will kick in on that one. They did make the same change to alpha strike.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Poofah » October 23rd, 2014, 5:12 pm

Are they doing the same to Alpha Strike? I assumed Arcane Slash was meant to be functionally distinct from Alpha Strike. But if they're going to apply this mechanic to Tail Sweep as well, then they should really give this treatment to all of the 'if first'/'if last' attacks. It's very stupid that Alpha Strike gets double-dipped by Sandstorm/Shell Shield -- it makes many flyers much weaker against crabs (for example) than they should be.

If they're consistent with it, then it's a good change. It will improve these attacks against shields (which are too strong currently), and weaken them against the magic passive (which is too weak currently).

Vek wrote:As long as they avoid the Arcane Slash bug(same speed no attack) I feel this is better.


Yes, it would be good to check what beta Tail Sweep does against a same-speed pet. It will be a lot easier for them if they fix that bug *before* they transfer the same code onto additional abilities.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Hootstwo » October 23rd, 2014, 5:40 pm

Agree with the comment regarding damage vs thing with shields (IE my PP Crab), it will deal significantly more damage in this form than the prior implementation. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a substantial change.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Quintessence » October 23rd, 2014, 5:46 pm

Poofah wrote:Are they doing the same to Alpha Strike?


Alpha Strike remains unaltered on beta for now. It could be that they don't plan on changing it or they just haven't implemented the updates yet.
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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Hootstwo » October 23rd, 2014, 6:56 pm

In this same fashion (I believe), I noticed that Tympanic Tantrum was dealing damage differently: It used to be that the front line pet would receive two hits of damage, each roughly the same size as the damage dealt to the rear line pets. Now, the front receives a single hit roughly double the size of the rear line.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Fadaar » October 25th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Hootstwo wrote:In this same fashion (I believe), I noticed that Tympanic Tantrum was dealing damage differently: It used to be that the front line pet would receive two hits of damage, each roughly the same size as the damage dealt to the rear line pets. Now, the front receives a single hit roughly double the size of the rear line.


I noticed this too after the patch, definitely true. Lil XT is my go-to opener for a bunch of the trainer battles (Icecrown, Jade Forest, Krasarang Wilds) and while I will miss the separate crit chance for the two hits, bigger numbers are fun (even if in the end it's still the same amount as before) :lol:

The change to Tail Sweep really hurts all my 341 damage P/P dragon whelplings I have, since the slow hard hitting varieties were the perfect anti-magic pets. My Infinite, Nexus, Thundering Serpent Hatchling, and Spawn of Onyxia whelplings will cry a little if the change goes in.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Poofah » October 29th, 2014, 1:41 am

The Tail Sweep change is live now. It works properly when same speed, ie it deals the low-end dmg. The Arcane Slash bug appears to also have been fixed.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Vek » October 29th, 2014, 3:44 am

Poofah wrote:The Tail Sweep change is live now. It works properly when same speed, ie it deals the low-end dmg. The Arcane Slash bug appears to also have been fixed.


Excellent. Anyone tested Sandstorm vs Elementals?

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Poofah » October 29th, 2014, 8:22 am

The sandstorm bug is still there, ie elementals currently do not benefit from the sandstorm shield.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Chillibilly » October 29th, 2014, 10:10 am

Poofah wrote:The sandstorm bug is still there, ie elementals currently do not benefit from the sandstorm shield.


Elementals ignore the weather effects right? Or is this about something else?

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Poofah » October 29th, 2014, 1:44 pm

Elementals are supposed to ignore only the negative effects of weathers; there was a change in 5.4 to make Elementals benefit from Sandstorm's damage reduction shield. That seems to have been rolled back in 6.0, and there's no indication that it was intended.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Aalea » October 29th, 2014, 5:04 pm

I prefer to see the secondary damage happen. I really dont like the single sweep.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Aalea » October 29th, 2014, 5:09 pm

Hootstwo wrote:In this same fashion (I believe), I noticed that Tympanic Tantrum was dealing damage differently: It used to be that the front line pet would receive two hits of damage, each roughly the same size as the damage dealt to the rear line pets. Now, the front receives a single hit roughly double the size of the rear line.



I noticed this also, and from a purely aesthetic point of view I would rather see the damage done twice rather than have it consolidated.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Drudatz » November 2nd, 2014, 2:54 pm

Poofah wrote:Elementals are supposed to ignore only the negative effects of weathers; there was a change in 5.4 to make Elementals benefit from Sandstorm's damage reduction shield. That seems to have been rolled back in 6.0, and there's no indication that it was intended.
I think its probably the way it was intended all along cause you cant say Elementals ignore weather effects and then start nitpicking, but....

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Jerebear » November 2nd, 2014, 5:06 pm

Drudatz wrote:
Poofah wrote:Elementals are supposed to ignore only the negative effects of weathers; there was a change in 5.4 to make Elementals benefit from Sandstorm's damage reduction shield. That seems to have been rolled back in 6.0, and there's no indication that it was intended.
I think its probably the way it was intended all along cause you cant say Elementals ignore weather effects and then start nitpicking, but....


Actually, the devs mentioned via twitter that elementals should gain the positive benefits of weather. I think Lio had a post on this way back when with links to the tweets. I'll see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: Here's some tweets from the crafticus:
https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 2122617857

Here was an old thread with more tweets:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8944&p=71401&hilit=weather#p71401
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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Kpb321 » November 3rd, 2014, 11:48 am

As expected this hurt on Jeremy feasel. My old strat was a P/P Infinite Whelpling and it was Tail sweep, tail sweep, heal, tail sweep to finish him off and have the dragonkin racial up for early advantage on the tonk. Now that leaves him at ~15 health unless I crit on one of the two first hits because the third hit is capped by the racial as a single hit. Tail Sweep x 3 heal tail sweep works now instead but takes an extra turn which leaves him a little more vulnerable.

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Re: Tail Sweep change on beta

Postby Poofah » November 3rd, 2014, 2:55 pm

Do Early Advantage, Tail Sweep, heal, Tail Sweep. The Early Advantage double hit is slightly more than Tail Sweep and this should kill him in 4 turns, and then EA is off cooldown to smack the Tonk.


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