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One hit wonders incoming!

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Klaital
 
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One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Klaital » October 10th, 2014, 7:38 am

So it has been confirmed that the pre-patch is coming next week, so be ready to face lots of 3x iron starlette teams in pvp all with wind-up + supercharge, so get your avoidance pets ready! :)

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Poofah
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Poofah » October 10th, 2014, 8:38 am

Any change is good change at this point. Haunt nerf and DAH overnerf should also go live next week.

On the bright side, if Starlette does turn out to be 5.2 FFF, there's another patch in a month so there's an opportunity to address it reasonably quickly.

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Tekulve2012
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Tekulve2012 » October 10th, 2014, 10:30 am

Forgive the noobishness of my question ...

Regarding this 'pre-xpack patch'.... People can use the pets and items from WoD ... But don't you lose all progress and items gained using WoD stuff? This is why Nov.13th actual release date matters no?

In other words, would you earn battlestones or pet pvp wins this next month if you use WoD pets ?

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Vek
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Vek » October 10th, 2014, 10:55 am

Still its a two round(+additional if you need powerball) setup do do this. So lots of time to react and switch in that magic pet with elemental attacks. Not close to the Murkalot silliness. 3-4 rounds is nothing unusual, when counting turns, to take out a pet and for at least two turns you take no damage in return.

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Awq
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Awq » October 10th, 2014, 11:04 am

If they had not nerfed Bleed my Enchanted Broom team would be even stronger.

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Hermy
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Hermy » October 10th, 2014, 11:18 am

Tekulve, the Iron Starlette isn't a WoD pet, it's from the pre-xpac event, the Iron Invasion (I think that's what it's called anyway). :)

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Dirkie
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Dirkie » October 10th, 2014, 11:52 am

Personally I think they should not allow duplicate pets per battle team, at least for PVP regardless of breed. To me that seems like an easier fix than nerfing individual pets. DAH are powerful for sure but OP when you put three in a row. I don't even care about Haunt so much. It is a niche move which people only use for PVP and easy to get for everyone. Just make people use their imagination a little and come up with teams with three different pets.

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Talalara
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Talalara » October 10th, 2014, 12:04 pm

[quote="Dirkie"]Personally I think they should not allow duplicate pets per battle team, at least for PVP regardless of breed.

I must be really behind the curve and clearly not reading this forum enough but why should having 3 pets of the same creature be an issue in PVP? I have 3 Unborn Val'kyr and I can't figure out what all the fuss is about. I have tried several permutations of the fighting abilities and my 3 Valk team gets beat everytime.

Someone somewhere has figured out a beat to at least that team because I am proof it can happen in several ways.

I have always wondered why in the world ingenuity is always punished in this game (WoW). These different facets of the game are pre-tested in betas and such & therefore it is put out there in good faith for all to play. Every game ever invented will always have that one to a few players who will capitalize on something because they worked it out.

Not venting on you personally Dirkie but venting on this sentiment in game. It is just sad that it has now spilled over into this facet of the game; battle pet collecting.

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Tekulve2012
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Tekulve2012 » October 10th, 2014, 12:10 pm

Thanks Hermy
I knew the excitement about this patch had to have something to it

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Echinacea
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Echinacea » October 10th, 2014, 1:03 pm

Talalara wrote:
Dirkie wrote:Not venting on you personally Dirkie but venting on this sentiment in game. It is just sad that it has now spilled over into this facet of the game; battle pet collecting.

thats the sentiment in this country in everything....life, work, politics etc. "someone is more successful than me, punish them!"

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Klaital
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Klaital » October 10th, 2014, 1:36 pm

On the positive side, if iron starlette mega hit becomes popular, then magic family pets suddenly become lot more viable as their racial perfectly counters it.

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Awq
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Awq » October 10th, 2014, 1:55 pm

Talalara wrote:I must be really behind the curve and clearly not reading this forum enough but why should having 3 pets of the same creature be an issue in PVP? I have 3 Unborn Val'kyr and I can't figure out what all the fuss is about. I have tried several permutations of the fighting abilities and my 3 Valk team gets beat everytime.

I believe he complained about 3x Death Adder Hatchling.
Unborn Val'Kyr is a really powerful pet, because of strong synergies. Stacking this pet x3 is completely useless, the synergy disappears completely. Your second and third Val'Kyr will be a lot weaker than your first, possibly be below average strength.

Talalara wrote:I have always wondered why in the world ingenuity is always punished in this game (WoW). These different facets of the game are pre-tested in betas and such & therefore it is put out there in good faith for all to play. Every game ever invented will always have that one to a few players who will capitalize on something because they worked it out.

Not venting on you personally Dirkie but venting on this sentiment in game. It is just sad that it has now spilled over into this facet of the game; battle pet collecting.


I agree with Dirgie. I generally have no trouble beating triple -pet-. I however find triple -pet- unimaginative. There is no point finding ideal match-ups for example, because all your pets will fight the same opponents. Triple X isn't strategic, it is luck based. You win if you have a good match-up and lose if you have a bad match-up. I would not mind to see a ban on triple -pet- because it is relatively boring to fight against.
How exactly is using triple - pet- imaginative?

Edit:
I do not feel that this new pet will be a big problem. Val'Kyr teams counter it! I however dislike the design of this pet.
Last edited by Awq on October 10th, 2014, 2:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Dirkie
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Dirkie » October 10th, 2014, 1:59 pm

Let's be honest beta testing only goes so far that is why they always have patches at the beginning of expansions because they have problems with the build. The thread was about OP pets and teams of three (Starlette this time). Whenever you find a pet which is over powering then grab three of them for a team for me that stops being enjoyable. Yes there are always counters but they nerfed the fluxfire feline because it was OP now they will nerf the DAH because it is OP next they will nerf this new Starlette perhaps. Players take a current OP pet triplicate it and make a team. I don't think the Valk is OP but three DAH is a tough battle for sure, which I have both beaten and lost to. Just like having three of those Blossoming Agents and creating a killer stall team. Maybe it will be the same for this new Starlette pet. I think it would be better for PVP to have a limit of one of any given pet on a team. Create more thinking on how to put together a team or use more diverse pets and not just faceroll through PVP. I would disagree that teams of three DAHs is "ingenuity".

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Poofah
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Poofah » October 10th, 2014, 3:22 pm

Klaital wrote:On the positive side, if iron starlette mega hit becomes popular, then magic family pets suddenly become lot more viable as their racial perfectly counters it.


Magic pets were never a viable counter for FFF, and I wouldn't expect them to be effective against Starlette either. Starlette can just Powerball or swap out against a magic pet -- the racial will never come into play. Most magic pets also deal weak dmg to mechs, so the available options are very narrow and quite bad overall.

Avoidance is the best counter -- Deflection/Feign are super hard counters and may become extra popular for a while. Starlette needs 5+ turns to land its combo on a standard fast avoidance pet (rabbit, DAH, moth) and these are not at all uncommon. FFF was brutal because Supercharge didn't go away until the hit actually landed: Starlette can't afford to have its combo avoided, or it will almost certainly lose.

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Klaital
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Klaital » October 10th, 2014, 3:39 pm

Poofah wrote:
Klaital wrote:On the positive side, if iron starlette mega hit becomes popular, then magic family pets suddenly become lot more viable as their racial perfectly counters it.


Magic pets were never a viable counter for FFF, and I wouldn't expect them to be effective against Starlette either. Starlette can just Powerball or swap out against a magic pet -- the racial will never come into play. Most magic pets also deal weak dmg to mechs, so the available options are very narrow and quite bad overall.

Avoidance is the best counter -- Deflection/Feign are super hard counters and may become extra popular for a while. Starlette needs 5+ turns to land its combo on a standard fast avoidance pet (rabbit, DAH, moth) and these are not at all uncommon. FFF was brutal because Supercharge didn't go away until the hit actually landed: Starlette can't afford to have its combo avoided, or it will almost certainly lose.


How do you count 5 turns? Rabbit can only avoid attacks for 3 turns, adder for 2 (and they are even increasing the cd on that). And against the adder, I would imagine the p/p iron starlette doesn't even need supercharge as wind-up alone will likely one shot it.

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Poofah
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Poofah » October 10th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Klaital wrote:How do you count 5 turns? Rabbit can only avoid attacks for 3 turns,


Yes but the rabbit doesn't just spam avoidance on turns 1-3. The rabbit can wait until Starlette uses Wind-Up and/or Supercharge. It takes 3 turns of Powerball for PP Starlette to become faster than the rabbit: Starlette can't use Supercharge until it's faster, or it's guaranteed to be avoided.

Klaital wrote: And against the adder, I would imagine the p/p iron starlette doesn't even need supercharge as wind-up alone will likely one shot it.


Yes, you don't need Supercharge -- Powerball+Wind-Up will kill a DAH. Wind-Up is 1300 dmg on a beast, which is just short of killing a DAH unless you get lucky with the damage range.

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Vek
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Vek » October 11th, 2014, 1:38 am

Poofah wrote:Magic pets were never a viable counter for FFF, and I wouldn't expect them to be effective against Starlette either. Starlette can just Powerball or swap out against a magic pet -- the racial will never come into play. Most magic pets also deal weak dmg to mechs, so the available options are very narrow and quite bad overall.


I would keep the magic pet in back line until they do supercharge, then switch in. If they don't use supercharge it is nothing more than a slightly better Mechanical Chicken(wind-up + overtune) and we don't see those as being OP.

Though I agree there are not many Magical pets that are strong vs mechs(minfernal,abyssal and lamps...well tcg book too), there are quite few more with undead attacks.

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Simmias
 
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Simmias » October 11th, 2014, 2:18 am

any possible op moveset will be fixed before wod launches or a little after. At this stage, who doesn't have the pvp pet achieves? It's a trivial issue.

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Vek
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Vek » October 11th, 2014, 11:17 am

Poofah wrote:Avoidance is the best counter -- Deflection/Feign are super hard counters and may become extra popular for a while. Starlette needs 5+ turns to land its combo on a standard fast avoidance pet (rabbit, DAH, moth) and these are not at all uncommon. FFF was brutal because Supercharge didn't go away until the hit actually landed: Starlette can't afford to have its combo avoided, or it will almost certainly lose.


Chi-Chi will be a very nice counter to use. Flying(so fast), strong vs mech attacks, tranquility if you want to lessen powerball damage and excellent avoidance.

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Drudatz
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Re: One hit wonders incoming!

Postby Drudatz » October 15th, 2014, 3:55 pm

Talalara wrote:
Dirkie wrote:Personally I think they should not allow duplicate pets per battle team, at least for PVP regardless of breed.
I must be really behind the curve and clearly not reading this forum enough but why should having 3 pets of the same creature be an issue in PVP?.
Do I really have to say 3x FF, 3x Dino, 3xBirds with Night & Nocturnal Strike?
Contrary to Dirkie Id say your only allowed to have any ability ONCE per Team :)

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