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Fun Murkalot teams

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Nyorai
 
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Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Nyorai » September 29th, 2014, 10:05 pm

Oh wow. Just got my hands on Murkalot. This little guy is awesome.
Ive been having fun tearing through the panda trainers with him.
Dabbled in some PVP with him, Lil Rag, and the Blackfuse Bombling.
Any other fun combinations? :o

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Genome
 
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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Genome » September 29th, 2014, 11:23 pm

Nyorai wrote:Oh wow. Just got my hands on Murkalot. This little guy is awesome.
Ive been having fun tearing through the panda trainers with him.
Dabbled in some PVP with him, Lil Rag, and the Blackfuse Bombling.
Any other fun combinations? :o


Nope. Murk has a built in modifier that only allows him to be played with Blackfuse Bomblings or Fossilized Hatchlings. I know it's true because I haven't seen a Murk player without one or both of those pets in months....

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Poofah » September 30th, 2014, 12:06 pm

Basically you just want to combine RI with a high-damage move. So Armageddon/Bonestorm are natural choices, so is Avalanche/Thunderbolt, so is Haunt (because RI buff stays on the pet and doesn't wear off while it's dead). Feed/Siphon Anima, Ghostly Bite, Surge of Power, Ion Cannon are all ok, but nothing compares to those top ones in terms of high damage plus convenience.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Awq » September 30th, 2014, 7:12 pm

Poofah wrote:Ghostly Bite, Surge of Power are all ok, but nothing compares to those top ones in terms of high damage plus convenience.

I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't underestimate Murkalot, Blighthawk, Azure Whelpling!
It is a very lethal Arcane Storms team.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Vek » October 1st, 2014, 1:35 am

I have not seen much imagination either from the Murkalot teams I have faced, mostly just paired with Blackfuse Bombling. But this week I have actually faced a Murkalot with Shieldstorm, it became mostly fodder, but can be brutal if paired with Magical Crawdad for example.

Anyway for inspiration purposes:

Try RI with a Direhorn. Horn Attack will then go first and has it's shot at stunning, then you can do Trihorn Charge next turn to finish the pet of if need. This might actually be a way to get some use out of Clefthoof Runt or Stunted Shardhorn.

It could also be brutal holding off the RI and saving a beast pet(perhaps a P/P Baby Ape) with beast racial active for an additional damage bonus.

Or try a Death Talon Whelpguard. RI -> Blitz. This should leave you with Dragon Racial active ready for a decently powerful Whirlwind.

Well I don't have Murkalot myself so I am mainly interested in countering this sillyness.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Tekulve2012 » October 1st, 2014, 10:13 am

As far as Murkalot counters go ~

Those who use Blackfuse for a RI'd Armageddon ... if you have Elemental pets up front, they take less of a hit (which doesnt help your backline oc.).

As you all know, armaggedon will do over 1k damage to your beasts so be ready for that nastiness

Stuns/avaoidance work well when timed properly (the only trick is if Murkalot doesn't RI as his 1st move)
----------
Note:
Most murkalot teams seem to do like Valk teams..they 'waste' the armageddon pets ability to damage before sacrificing it 1st thing. This is similar to how Valk users often let their pet go 1st regardless of the opposing team's makeup and then they get hammered/avoided in their rush to apply a CoD and/or haunt

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Kendrah » October 2nd, 2014, 3:27 pm

I love him on AOE teams. Fossilized Hatchling and another pet (Spawn or Pand Mech Dragon.) I also love to put him in teams with arcane weather, seeing as the weather prevents all stuns, even self inflicted stuns (it's really nice since lil' rag and his trap/lava wave gets really annoying after a while.)

Awq wrote:I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't underestimate Murkalot, Blighthawk, Azure Whelpling!
It is a very lethal Arcane Storms team.


Yeah, no kidding, though I use Nexus Whelpling. It's one of my favorite teams. It's especially effective for those annoying people who keep using Kun-Lai and/or ice/stun teams.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Hootstwo » October 5th, 2014, 6:28 pm

Murkalot with a Dread Hatchling and a Raven or Crow with fewer HP than the Dread can be awfully fun. Aren't many (non-magic) pets that survive the two hits that Dread dishes after being catapulted in by Murkalot.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Skavenged » October 6th, 2014, 8:51 am

You know, we hear all the time about the Valks being broken, but this pet is certainly just as broken. Righteous inspiration is nearly indefensible when used against back line pets, AND it goes first. Falling murloc is very comparable to Ion Cannon, except that the stun only last one round instead of two, and more importantly... Unlike cannon pets that have to stand and take two rounds of free attacks from their opponent, Murk can be swapped out. And the biggest kicker of all... He isn't available to everyone. At least with the valks, everyone can get one

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Kendrah » October 7th, 2014, 8:36 am

Skavenged wrote:Righteous inspiration is nearly indefensible when used against back line pets, AND it goes first.


RI does go first but A) you can attack the pet that is coming after RI is finished and B) the pet, while it does have higher speed, can be blocked by any of the 'this always goes first' type spells and then it's wasted so it's not a free swap out. Hell, if you time it right and with the greater speed of the RI, you could block it simply by any of the submerging or flying high spells (since the pet with the buff will go first.)



Skavenged wrote:Falling murloc is very comparable to Ion Cannon, except that the stun only last one round instead of two, and more importantly... Unlike cannon pets that have to stand and take two rounds of free attacks from their opponent, Murk can be swapped out.


Falling Murloc does less damage then Ion Cannon. No one would use Ion Cannon in the middle of the fight anyway, tbh. 99% of the fights that I've seen Ion Cannon used where always the third pet used and was saved for the sole purpose of killing your opponents last pet so the amount of turns stunned is a mute point.

Skavenged wrote:And the biggest kicker of all... He isn't available to everyone. At least with the valks, everyone can get one


That's not the biggest kicker because, regardless of all this, RI, Ion Cannon, AND Falling Murloc all have a CD and none of the pets are invulnerable to attacks like the Val is.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Vek » October 7th, 2014, 9:05 am

Kendrah wrote:
Skavenged wrote:Righteous inspiration is nearly indefensible when used against back line pets, AND it goes first.


RI does go first but A) you can attack the pet that is coming after RI is finished and B) the pet, while it does have higher speed, can be blocked by any of the 'this always goes first' type spells and then it's wasted so it's not a free swap out. Hell, if you time it right and with the greater speed of the RI, you could block it simply by any of the submerging or flying high spells (since the pet with the buff will go first.)


This is all well and good if the opposing pet does not use and AoE attack. The most common thing I run into is a Bombling with Armageddon or Fossilized Hatchling with Bonestorm. Both are very devastating.

The only real thing to block this is actually a Murkalot of your own with Shieldstorm. Since I don't have that I am left with either a stun or a switch move, both of which I have to get very lucky with the timing. Luckily most Murkalot teams I face are easy that way, no imagination... well until after a couple of fights then they try switching it up which makes it even sweeter when that stun connects the RI pet.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Skavenged » October 7th, 2014, 9:51 am

Kendrah wrote:
Skavenged wrote:Righteous inspiration is nearly indefensible when used against back line pets, AND it goes first.


RI does go first but A) you can attack the pet that is coming after RI is finished and B) the pet, while it does have higher speed, can be blocked by any of the 'this always goes first' type spells and then it's wasted so it's not a free swap out. Hell, if you time it right and with the greater speed of the RI, you could block it simply by any of the submerging or flying high spells (since the pet with the buff will go first.)



Skavenged wrote:Falling murloc is very comparable to Ion Cannon, except that the stun only last one round instead of two, and more importantly... Unlike cannon pets that have to stand and take two rounds of free attacks from their opponent, Murk can be swapped out.


Falling Murloc does less damage then Ion Cannon. No one would use Ion Cannon in the middle of the fight anyway, tbh. 99% of the fights that I've seen Ion Cannon used where always the third pet used and was saved for the sole purpose of killing your opponents last pet so the amount of turns stunned is a mute point.

Skavenged wrote:And the biggest kicker of all... He isn't available to everyone. At least with the valks, everyone can get one


That's not the biggest kicker because, regardless of all this, RI, Ion Cannon, AND Falling Murloc all have a CD and none of the pets are invulnerable to attacks like the Val is.


I think Vek covered the Righteous Inspiration very well. As for no one using Ion Cannon during the middle of the fight... That's BECAUSE it has a two round stun and the pet can't be swapped out. Murk doesn't have that problem. As far as Ion Cannon doing more damage: a level 25 Chrominus using Ion Cannon does about 60 more damage than a level 25 Murk using Falling Murloc. Chrom then stands helpless for two rounds while Murk can be swapped to the back row

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Skavenged » October 7th, 2014, 10:12 am

Correction: I was actually referring to Surge of Power from Chrominius, but the principle is the same. Just a magic version of Ion Cannon and still has two round stun

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Kendrah » October 7th, 2014, 10:36 am

Vek wrote:This is all well and good if the opposing pet does not use and AoE attack. The most common thing I run into is a Bombling with Armageddon or Fossilized Hatchling with Bonestorm. Both are very devastating.


This is true, though it's not necessarily limited to RI. A prowl and flux can be just as strong or heartbroken and that aoe. Granted, these come with more drawbacks (heartbreak gives the user more damage and prowl is, well, prowl) but I'm just saying that RI isn't the only AOE buff out there. It's just a fairly strong one. They should probably put an extra damage debuff afterward, though.

Skavenged wrote:As far as Ion Cannon doing more damage: a level 25 Chrominus using Ion Cannon does about 60 more damage than a level 25 Murk using Falling Murloc.


Both Ion Cannon and Power Surge do 200 more damage than Falling Murloc. That's fairly more than 60. ;P

I'm surprised your issue here is the one round stun. I personally think being able to negate that with an Arcane Wind team makes Murkalot WAY more OP. Not as OP as Val, but certainly above the rest of the herd. You simply can't beat being able to heal party members, do significant damage with curse and haunt, and being indestructible during the duration of haunt in terms of OP-hood.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Kendrah » October 7th, 2014, 10:44 am

Skavenged wrote:As for no one using Ion Cannon during the middle of the fight... That's BECAUSE it has a two round stun and the pet can't be swapped out.


I think you're significantly playing down how strong both Ion Cannon and Power Surge are in PVP battles just because of the two round stun. I've come up against a whole lot of teams with pets that finish with either or and they're incredibly hard to beat. I think I lose 9 times out of 10. It's not nearly as easy with a Murkalot as you seem to think.

All they have to do is hit you once or twice. If they have any form of AOE party damage then they don't even have to do that. It's just BOOM and you've lost. I sincerely hate teams with IC and PS, to be quite honest. I have to change up my whole strategy in hopes of saving the pet that might be able to block that attack.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Skavenged » October 7th, 2014, 10:57 am

You're mistaken. Here's a list of pets with Surge of Power or Ion Cannon, followed by actual damage:

Darkmoon Tonk - 732
Menagerie Custodian - 700
Mechanical Yeta - 732
Azure Whelpling - 822
Chrominius - 740
Coilfang Stalker - 760
Legs - 740
Lil Tarecgosa - 732

Falling Murloc does 684 damage. You do the math. Other than the azure whelp at 309 power, all of them are in the 40-60 point range. Murk is clearly getting the benefits of a huge nuke without any of the drawbacks

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Awq » October 7th, 2014, 10:59 am

Kendrah wrote:Both Ion Cannon and Power Surge do 200 more damage than Falling Murloc. That's fairly more than 60. ;P

I'm surprised your issue here is the one round stun. I personally think being able to negate that with an Arcane Wind team makes Murkalot WAY more OP. Not as OP as Val, but certainly above the rest of the herd. You simply can't beat being able to heal party members, do significant damage with curse and haunt, and being indestructible during the duration of haunt in terms of OP-hood.

When you use Murkalot as finisher (like you would use the Darkmoon Tonks Ion Cannon) you can RI + Falling Murloc. You always go first, so it effectively is 1 turn. Murkalot does 1368 damage with its finisher combo, while Darkmoon Tonk does 732.

*While I say 1 turn, it could be two turns when Murkalot is faster. You basically sacrifice your speed of 1 turn to double your damage, which isn't always as great. Murkalot has 253 speed, and is quite slow. You are often the slower pet.
Arcane Storms however provides a synergy that removes the drawback completely, while Ion Cannons reload time can not be avoided.

Yeah, no kidding, though I use Nexus Whelpling. It's one of my favorite teams. It's especially effective for those annoying people who keep using Kun-Lai and/or ice/stun teams.

I prefer the Azure Whelp myself.
Mana Surge has 80% hit. Ion Cannon does not require a Arcane Storm setup like Mana Surge would.
The main advantage is that Azure Whelpling does not lock itself for 3 turns. You have less restrictions when you want to swap. This makes swapping into Blighthawk more flexible. You can swap out a lower health Azure Whelpling and use it again to 1 shot for example.
*Scrap what I said if you use Sear Magic instead.

The main advantage of Murkalot + Arcane Storm teams is that it has two good openers. You can either go the Azure Whelpling/Nexus Whelpling + Arcane Storm route, or you can open with Murkalot.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Skavenged » October 7th, 2014, 11:30 am

Further drawback for Ion Cannon or Surge of Power: they can be avoided with liftoff, dodge, burrow, fade, etc... While an Inspired Falling Murloc can ONLY be avoided with one if the "always goes first" abilities

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Vek » October 7th, 2014, 11:33 am

Kendrah wrote:This is true, though it's not necessarily limited to RI. A prowl and flux can be just as strong or heartbroken and that aoe. Granted, these come with more drawbacks (heartbreak gives the user more damage and prowl is, well, prowl) but I'm just saying that RI isn't the only AOE buff out there. It's just a fairly strong one. They should probably put an extra damage debuff afterward, though.


While I do agree that Heartbroken and Tympanic Tantrum can be truly devastating, especially if you have no way to lessen that damage there are three things that makes it much less of a threat that RI+AoE. First Heartbroken is telegraphed and unless you put a DoT or something on XT then you just don't attack and away goes the 100% damage bonus. Secondly XT is slow, very slow, which allows you to actually react instead of just blinding pushing an ability and hoping for your opponent to do the same. Thirdly without the heartbroken buff the damage is easily nullified by a Sandstorm.

Flux + Prowl only does bonus damage to the active pet, very little AoE damage. Also Prowl comes with a speed debuff which is quite the opposite of RI.

The speed buff is actually the biggest issue with RI. If it would come with a speed debuff instead I would have no issue with it.

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Re: Fun Murkalot teams

Postby Genome » October 7th, 2014, 12:28 pm

Vek wrote:The speed buff is actually the biggest issue with RI. If it would come with a speed debuff instead I would have no issue with it.


This is this crux of the problem with Murk. Take away the speed bonus that RI gives, and it is no longer horribly, horribly broken; it simply turns into a powerful buff and a free swap, which is still incredibly strong but not match-breaking as it can be now. Pair RI with a Bombling, and you have solutions to any "goes first" mechanic. The Bomb can just Armageddon, still doing massive dmg to the backline pets, though not optimal. If the opponent doesn't have a go-first mechanic, then they will either eat a buffed Armageddon with their entire team, or the Murk user can nearly take out the frontline pet in one shot (or even one shot depending on the frontline pet race and the Flame Jet DoT lingering). As it is, there are only a VERY few counters to this absurdity, and probably only two that completely negate it, though they require luck and juking to achieve. Blinding Poison cast on the RI cast round takes the buffed pet and sits it in a corner, but no sane Murk player will cast it on round one vs. an adder, so it often comes down to a game of chicken with you hoping that the Murk player will blink when you think they will. The other option is Crystal Prison. The same thing applies here as with the BP; you have to get lucky unless the Murk player is terrible (which I have noticed many seem to be).

Some might say that the dmg of the Armageddon is offset by the fact that the Bomb is off the board as well, and it is to some extent, but remember that anything being hit by Armageddon is now in range of being one-shot by RI->Falling Murloc as well, so in effect, four button pushes can line up to kill two pets that were at full health, and opponent dmg is totally negated for one of those rounds. I know of no other combinations that will accomplish this vs. any team racial makeup (Xu-Fu will never stay alive long enough to pull off his two-button combo twice in a match unless the other team is a Sunlight cheese team or something, and he would be the closest analogy methinks, along with Feline Familiar and their setups are far inferior to RI). If the Murk user is for some reason not using the Bomb, then the Fossilized Hatchling is always available and can be nearly as good (or better depending on your party make-up). Or better yet, just run with both and cover more bases.

Winning on the back of Murk is no less broken/cheesy than winning on the back of Valks, DAHs, Clonedance, etc. He is perhaps the only example of a truly "Pay to Win" pet in the game (BA/Sunlight team can be depending on what you run into, and Rag is bad but very manageable). I beat Murk teams fairly often, but ONLY if I am running OP pets of my own. No standard team will likely stand a chance against Murk/Bomb/Whatever. In fact, I would say that Murk is even cheesier that the Valk because someone with money to burn could just shell out the big bucks for Murk unless they were one of the few that got him the intended way, and at least the Valk user had to actually hunt theirs up.

Those trying to defend Murk or say that he is less broken than the Valk are likely Murk users themselves.
Last edited by Genome on October 7th, 2014, 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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