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Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
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Luciandk
 
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Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Luciandk » September 26th, 2014, 2:51 pm

https://twitter.com/TheCrafticus/status ... 2821820416

Poofah convinced the Crafticus that Haunt was in need of nerfs.

Its getting a 4 round cd, and it will always fail when used on the undead turn.


Im glad to see the overpowered Haunt move bought into line. Its been way too powerful for far too long.

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Tekulve2012
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Tekulve2012 » September 26th, 2014, 6:09 pm

Thanks for pleading this case guys! I only use my Valk vs the 2Celestial tourney bosses- xufu and niuzao (cod + haunt) with Lil bling's inflation.. That strat should still work anyway

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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Jerebear » September 26th, 2014, 8:34 pm

It shouldn't really affect PvE much at all. The no haunt on the undead round is probably the more PvE unfriendly nerf. However, this will affect PvP and actually add some more counters to the Valk as well as strengthen some existing ones.
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Poofah » September 26th, 2014, 10:31 pm

Jinzka wrote:Umm this is a terrible change. It makes the move (at least by pvp standards) useless. It's basically an 8 round CD


Seriously? Haunt is still the 2nd highest dmg move in the game. 8 round cd would be entirely appropriate, if that were true. It's only 8 rounds if Haunt lands, and Haunt gives you a free swap to a fresh pet with fresh cooldowns. Meanwhile your Valk rezzes in the backrow and you can let the Haunt cd tick before bringing it back into play. 4 rd cd may or may not be enough to make it balanced, but it's absolutely not an overnerf.

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Klaital
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Klaital » September 26th, 2014, 11:03 pm

Jinzka wrote:Umm this is a terrible change. It makes the move (at least by pvp standards) useless. It's basically an 8 round CD unless they change how CDs work while haunting and to ADD that it can't be used on undead phase WOW.

I agree it needed a nerf but it doesn't need to be slaughtered. Lowering damage and also making it unusable on undead phase would be good Or adding something like a 2 round CD to stop mindless spamming would work as well.


You do realize that Feign Death has 8 round cd too and its like haunt without any damage.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Luciandk » September 27th, 2014, 1:58 am

Haunt is high damage with no cd, with a free swap on live. No matter what defensive moves your opponent uses, you can just keep spamming haunt till it lands. It is exactly it is so popular in pvp currently.

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Digem
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Digem » September 27th, 2014, 5:48 am

Jinzka wrote:
Klaital wrote:
Jinzka wrote:Umm this is a terrible change. It makes the move (at least by pvp standards) useless. It's basically an 8 round CD unless they change how CDs work while haunting and to ADD that it can't be used on undead phase WOW.

I agree it needed a nerf but it doesn't need to be slaughtered. Lowering damage and also making it unusable on undead phase would be good Or adding something like a 2 round CD to stop mindless spamming would work as well.


You do realize that Feign Death has 8 round cd too and its like haunt without any damage.


Silly me I forgot that haunt went first and avoided damage even when it's slower.

Example of this NOT being like feign death. Valk vs Anub. Valk user selects haunt, Anub selects Crush. Say Anub goes first and kills Valk putting it in undead phase, haunt misses under new nerf....

But I am sorry for stating my opinion, I know better then to post on forums so y'all win and I'll mosey along.


It needed some sort of nerf this can be agreed upon but like this example shows this nerf might be too much.
So one will argue then that if low life and know you are slower just don't use haunt anymore.
But what is same speed?
You don't know who goes first.
Also what if not that low but get hit by crazy crit that kills you is one to expect that?
I think the cd was enough of a nerf the always miss on undead turn is a bit over the top.

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Luciandk
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Luciandk » September 27th, 2014, 6:04 am

If anything, I could see it would encourage H/H valkyrs to last a lot longer. Also Haunt have a perfectly good replacement in Unholy Ascension, that is a very good move to use on the undead turn.

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Jrallen01
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Jrallen01 » September 27th, 2014, 6:30 am

And they still haven't nerfed multiple consumes off a pet that is not really dead

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Genome
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Genome » September 27th, 2014, 9:05 am

Jinzka wrote:
Klaital wrote:Silly me I forgot that haunt went first and avoided damage even when it's slower.

Example of this NOT being like feign death. Valk vs Anub. Valk user selects haunt, Anub selects Crush. Say Anub goes first and kills Valk putting it in undead phase, haunt misses under new nerf....

But I am sorry for stating my opinion, I know better then to post on forums so y'all win and I'll mosey along.


Feign Death, while not an exact match, is Haunt's closest relative. While Haunt may not have the attributes of FD that you mentioned, I still believe that it is superior to FD, even after the nerf. So it doesn't go first, which is a negative, but it does stout dmg, and is the only "smart swap" in the game, allowing the user to pick the next incoming pet, which FD does not do. FD doesn't make you invulnerable to applied DoTs, AoE, and other backline dmg like Haunt does, and FD doesn't exploit Consume mechanics like Haunt either. As to the undead round, Haunt isn't always the default answer anyway if you can get an attack off. Often, a Shadow Slash/Shock is more useful for the instant dmg than the DoT aspect of Haunt anyway (though not 100% hit like Haunt), making the nerf not nearly as bad as it seems there. Haunt does all of this, and technically will still have half of the CD of Feign Death post-nerf. In other words, Haunt is still viable, but not as broken as it is currently.

In your Anub scenario, you can gamble on the Haunt as before, you just don't get to lean on the UD racial as a get-out-of-jail-free card, or you can simply use your slot 1 ability and hit regardless of whether you go first or not. While not optimal, it is still the "safer" option. I am not sure if I agree with the "miss on UD round" aspect of Haunt, but then again, the UD racial is borderline broken anyway, so it doesn't seem completely untoward.

I am sure that there will be a lot of people up-in-arms about losing their precious Haunt advantage, and while the nerf bat can be swung too hard and neuter a pet, it generally only gets used to the extreme in cases where said pet is horribly, horribly broken. Even post-nerf, the Valk will be one of the better undead pets, just not the mindless crutch that it is now. Also, people may actually try some variety with it as well (hey, you mean to tell me that that there is another ability in the "Haunt Slot"?!), rather than defaulting to Haunt. The Valk and DAH are sucking the fun, challenge, and creativity out of pet battles, and I for one will not weep for their upcoming nerfs.

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Kendrah
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Kendrah » September 27th, 2014, 9:44 am

Jinzka wrote:Silly me I forgot that haunt went first and avoided damage even when it's slower.


Yes, it is slower but it has no CD. When you feign death you take that pet out of play altogether. You need to waste a turn or have another pet die to get it in and it has a long CD. Haunt, on the other hand, has no CD plus it gives an incredible heal for pets with consume corpse, does a lot of damage, and makes the val invulnerable for the duration of the haunting. The only comparison to haunt debuff dmg wise is perhaps black claw but you need to actually attack the target for the added damage, it's shorter in duration, and you can still attack the pet with AOE spells from the black line.

You're basically making one pet completely invulnerable for the duration of the debuff and you think that's not incredibly OP'ed? And don't even get me started about when a val on a turn that is intended to cause a haunt dies, comes backs, haunts, then has another round to attack you while you're getting haunted by that val.

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Awq
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Awq » September 27th, 2014, 10:07 am

I am glad to hear about this change!
I think that I will enjoy my Val'Kyr teams more.

What worries me is the buff to AoE in WoD, while nerfing Val'Kyrs.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Jerebear » September 27th, 2014, 1:56 pm

Jrallen01 wrote:And they still haven't nerfed multiple consumes off a pet that is not really dead


In a way, they have indirectly. While you still can do it, you can't do it nearly as often due to the new CD on Haunt (which was the only ability I am aware of that had that issue with consume corpse?).
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Kendrah
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Kendrah » September 28th, 2014, 4:16 am

Jerebear wrote:In a way, they have indirectly. While you still can do it, you can't do it nearly as often due to the new CD on Haunt (which was the only ability I am aware of that had that issue with consume corpse?).


It won't, unless the haunt misses and survives. Consume corpse has a five round CD and haunt last for about that length (depending.) The issue is more that every time the val haunts it counts as a new corpse. Consume corpse is supposed to work once with each corpse so if the val misses on that last turn and dies then that's still a new corpse for it to eat.

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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Jerebear » September 28th, 2014, 10:22 am

Kendrah wrote:
Jerebear wrote:In a way, they have indirectly. While you still can do it, you can't do it nearly as often due to the new CD on Haunt (which was the only ability I am aware of that had that issue with consume corpse?).


It won't, unless the haunt misses and survives. Consume corpse has a five round CD and haunt last for about that length (depending.) The issue is more that every time the val haunts it counts as a new corpse. Consume corpse is supposed to work once with each corpse so if the val misses on that last turn and dies then that's still a new corpse for it to eat.


Yes, but they added a 4 round cooldown that doesn't start ticking until after the haunt is finished. The "next" corpse to consume will take a while longer to get to than it used to.
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Kendrah
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Re: Haunt nerf upcomming, rejoice!

Postby Kendrah » September 28th, 2014, 6:23 pm

Jerebear wrote:Yes, but they added a 4 round cooldown that doesn't start ticking until after the haunt is finished. The "next" corpse to consume will take a while longer to get to than it used to.


:O! Best thing I heard all day!


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