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Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Discuss pet battles, strategy and theorycrafting.
Twinkielock
 
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Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Twinkielock » September 9th, 2014, 11:18 am

When both you and your opponent have this pet, and you both start with it, what is the best course of action? I ran into this scenario about 10 times last night.

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Digem
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Digem » September 9th, 2014, 1:02 pm

Which if any had the speed advantage or where they the same breed.
If same breed or you know yours is slower than don't risk a haunt.
Better to spam your first move to the other one haunts you.
Then haunt and doom the next pet in.

If faster and know it them use your doom first then haunt second move since you know you are faster.
Because if slower or same speed and the other one haunts first and then you haunt on same turn your haunt misses and you stay dead.

B/b breed is faster than the h/h breed.

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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Kpb321 » September 9th, 2014, 1:06 pm

It depends on the breed(s) of the pets you both have. If you both have the same breed they will be the same speed and things get a little funny because the game randomly rolls every turn to see who goes first so you never know if you'll go first or not. This is important because if you both try to haunt on the same turn and you go second your Valk will just die and never come back which leaves you in a pretty big whole. If you are faster because you have B/B and your opponent has a H/H the ideal scenario is if he suicides his valk by haunting the same turn you do so I'd probably just do the usual Doom/Haunt sequence. If you are slower you can Doom but you basically have to use a normal attack until they haunt you or you risk your valk.

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Genome
 
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Genome » September 9th, 2014, 1:10 pm

Depends on your breed of valk, as well as your other pets. Valk breed is incredibly important when it comes to valk vs. valk warfare. Let's look at a few scenarios:

You = UV (b/b) / 2 random pets
Opponent = UV (h/h) / 2 random pets
Situation - You will be faster, and can therefore Haunt first if you so choose. The other valk can Haunt your next pet unless he has some sort of dodge/blind/stun mechanic, which will "rez" your valk. In this scenario, I prefer to have a h/h breed of valk.

You = UV (b/b) / 2 random pets
Opponent = UV (b/b) / 2 random pets
Situation - Very dangerous spot to be in. If you both use Haunt on the same round, something bad will happen to the one who goes second. Basically, it will kill the valk who goes second, so basically a 50/50 chance for insta-death. This scenario is the same for the h/h valk user as well, but only a madman (or someone unaware of the glitch) running a h/h valk will try to Haunt a b/b breed. In this scenario, I would let the opponent Haunt me first unless my valk had very low health from other dmg, making the gamble to "glitch-kill" your opponent's valk worthwhile.

In the last two scenarios, just reverse them if you are running a h/h.

You = UV (b/b) / DAH (s/s) / random third pet
Opponent = UV (h/h) / 2 random pets
Situation - You get first Haunt and a free swap in to the DAH, which can then do BP, which will ensure an additional two ticks of Haunt on the h/h valk.

You = UV (b/b) / DAH (s/s) / Spring Rabbit (s/s/)
Opponent = UV (h/h) / DAH / Random third pet
Situation - The other guy is in trouble here. You get first Haunt, swap into a DAH for BP, then swap in the rabbit and Dodge. This will let Haunt run for it's duration on the opponent, whether he switches or not. You could take a chance here and CoD the h/h first, as he will likely not try to Haunt the first round out of fear of killing his valk. In this case, you will likely kill the h/h valk as he sits there unable to get Haunt to hit anything, with the rabbit delivering the coup-de-grace, and receiving only one "hit" in return, depending on whether you Burrow or not.

You = UV (b/b) / DAH (s/s) / Random third pet
Opponent = UV (b/b/) / DAH (s/s) / Random third pet
Situation - This one actually happens quite a bit, and is far more complex than the other scenarios. The key here is to "juke" the opponent's DAH into firing off BP into your own DAH, then swapping in the valk to CoD/Haunt the DAH. Once the opponent's DAH is gone, it's business as usual. In this scenario, I open with my DAH to see what the opponent will open with (hopefully their own DAH).

There are myriad other pet combos that can change things of course, but for the sake of brevity I just limited these scenarios to valk vs. valk warfare. Due to the sickening amount of people who lean on valks and DAH's to get wins, these scenarios will actually be quite common.

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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Twinkielock » September 9th, 2014, 2:15 pm

I forget which breed mine is. I'll check when I get home. Also what is a DAH?

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Awq
 
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Awq » September 9th, 2014, 2:22 pm

It depends on the move-set of your other 2 pets
It depends on the move-set of his 2 pets (which team has control)
It depends on the health of the enemy team (Is CoD a wasted turn?)
It depends on the speed of your other 2 pets, compared to his pets
It depends on the speed of both Val"kyrs.
The most important question is: Are you hypothetically guaranteed a victory or are you far behind?

Basically I try to map out the whole battle. If I am far ahead, yay, I can play it safe. If I have a big chance of losing I'll take risks.
Genome described it well though.

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Genome
 
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Genome » September 9th, 2014, 3:14 pm

Twinkielock wrote:I forget which breed mine is. I'll check when I get home. Also what is a DAH?


DAH = Death Adder Hatchling. He is a fairly standard pet except for one exception; The s/s breed is notoriously broken atm because of his speed coupled with Blinding Poison, making him the bane of many an opponent :). His synergy with the valk is probably one of, if not THE, best in the game. Like the valk, the queues are saturated with these things.

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Digem
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Digem » September 9th, 2014, 8:47 pm

Kpb321 wrote:It depends on the breed(s) of the pets you both have. If you both have the same breed they will be the same speed and things get a little funny because the game randomly rolls every turn to see who goes first so you never know if you'll go first or not. This is important because if you both try to haunt on the same turn and you go second your Valk will just die and never come back which leaves you in a pretty big whole. If you are faster because you have B/B and your opponent has a H/H the ideal scenario is if he suicides his valk by haunting the same turn you do so I'd probably just do the usual Doom/Haunt sequence. If you are slower you can Doom but you basically have to use a normal attack until they haunt you or you risk your valk.



if slower also risky to doom because if the faster valk starts with haunt you just lost your doom for 5 rounds.
I start with haunt a lot if I am faster than the other valk for this very reason.
that is why if slower much better to spam the move in slot 1 till the other valk haunts away and doom and haunt his next pet

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JEC
 
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby JEC » September 12th, 2014, 3:44 pm

Digem wrote:
Kpb321 wrote:It depends on the breed(s) of the pets you both have. If you both have the same breed they will be the same speed and things get a little funny because the game randomly rolls every turn to see who goes first so you never know if you'll go first or not. This is important because if you both try to haunt on the same turn and you go second your Valk will just die and never come back which leaves you in a pretty big whole. If you are faster because you have B/B and your opponent has a H/H the ideal scenario is if he suicides his valk by haunting the same turn you do so I'd probably just do the usual Doom/Haunt sequence. If you are slower you can Doom but you basically have to use a normal attack until they haunt you or you risk your valk.



if slower also risky to doom because if the faster valk starts with haunt you just lost your doom for 5 rounds.
I start with haunt a lot if I am faster than the other valk for this very reason.
that is why if slower much better to spam the move in slot 1 till the other valk haunts away and doom and haunt his next pet


I start with haunt if I am the same speed or faster. If the same speed, I like the gamble that I might take their pet down if they do the same thing :).

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Digem
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Digem » September 13th, 2014, 12:34 pm

JEC wrote:
Digem wrote:
Kpb321 wrote:It depends on the breed(s) of the pets you both have. If you both have the same breed they will be the same speed and things get a little funny because the game randomly rolls every turn to see who goes first so you never know if you'll go first or not. This is important because if you both try to haunt on the same turn and you go second your Valk will just die and never come back which leaves you in a pretty big whole. If you are faster because you have B/B and your opponent has a H/H the ideal scenario is if he suicides his valk by haunting the same turn you do so I'd probably just do the usual Doom/Haunt sequence. If you are slower you can Doom but you basically have to use a normal attack until they haunt you or you risk your valk.



if slower also risky to doom because if the faster valk starts with haunt you just lost your doom for 5 rounds.
I start with haunt a lot if I am faster than the other valk for this very reason.
that is why if slower much better to spam the move in slot 1 till the other valk haunts away and doom and haunt his next pet


I start with haunt if I am the same speed or faster. If the same speed, I like the gamble that I might take their pet down if they do the same thing :).


I like to sometimes take that gamble too it can really set one up to really quickly win a battle.
I usually will attempt that when I have fought someone a few times already and know how they fight.
Reason why I love when people name their pets makes it easier to know I am fighting someone again and now I know their playing style.
Nothing better then watching someone run away when they name thier pets with taunting names like you lose or vulgar names.
I just sit back and laugh.

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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Jerebear » September 13th, 2014, 12:47 pm

I actually like being slower in the valk vs valk combo. I just attack until they haunt and then haunt the next round, putting their valk on the backline. While it isn't really a damage advantage, it usually messes up their combo. This of course doesn't work against stall teams as well, but it works out with the others. Mileage may vary depending on your meta.
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Genome
 
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Genome » September 13th, 2014, 1:13 pm

Jerebear wrote:I actually like being slower in the valk vs valk combo. I just attack until they haunt and then haunt the next round, putting their valk on the backline. While it isn't really a damage advantage, it usually messes up their combo. This of course doesn't work against stall teams as well, but it works out with the others. Mileage may vary depending on your meta.


I agree for the most part, but there is one huge problem; valks rarely venture out without DAH support. Of course, there are always those that stick a valk on a team with two random pets because they heard it will make them strong which will give the h/h valk an "advantage" if that player has a b/b, but they are fairly rare for me to run into tbh. If the other guy is running a b/b and Haunts into a DAH, then that will be at least 3 ticks of Haunt hitting your h/h valk, not to mention the adder's poison getting at least one tick on you as well on top of the Deadly Bite dmg (assuming that he BP's first, which is pretty much a given), and the poison DoT will still be running on your valk when he rezzes, which is a huge dmg disparity if all you can get in return is your own Haunt. I already had a h/h valk, but it was getting trounced so much by the b/b/DAH combo, that I actually went out and farmed up a b/b valk as well (btw, I only use valks against other valk users and run from those who aren't using them for the most part unless they are running garbage like 3x adders or dread hatchlings, Murk and the like). With the current state of the meta, I feel that the h/h valk is woefully behind the b/b breed, though I despise them both :).

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Nagini
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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Nagini » September 13th, 2014, 1:25 pm

I run valk/scourged whelp/clockwork gnome for my weekly 10 pvp wins(7/10 win ratio? I just love all three of these pets), and if i am slower, i usually tend to wait out their haunt, using CoD and the basic attack just to make sure. When facing a valk of equal speed, though, i do love taking that gamble. Most of the time, they'll CoD or something else first, letting you haunt them, but occaisionally they'll suicide on you or vice versa. With the glitch being more well known, however, I havent had that scenario in a while.

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Re: Unborn Val'kyr vs Unborn Val'kyr

Postby Worgenbait » September 14th, 2014, 10:10 am

I run a valk with my regular team (Valk/Stitched Pup/Lil' Bling) and for 3 whole days, it seemed I got the same guy over and over and over again. Can't remember the other two pets offhand, but we both always started with B/B Valk and haunt. Basically, whichever one of us got to attack second (ie. Valk dying) would bow out gracefully. In that 3 day span, I think we did 100 pet battles, and didn't take more than a couple of hours. It was nice span, and basically 50/50 odds of winning a battle, so it helped drive both our wins up.


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