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Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

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Syrrie
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Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Syrrie » June 17th, 2013, 6:26 pm

Just saw a blue response to a post about someone looking to trade for a blossoming ancient pet (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/262776-looking-for-a-blossoming-ancient/) and it said that trading pet store pets for in game things like other pets or gold is actually against the ToS and an actionable offense. :shock:

Pretty terrible, but here's a heads up for future reference at least. :/
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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Quintessence » June 17th, 2013, 6:51 pm

I think when Blizzard implemented the Guardian Cub as a tradeable Pet Store companion, it kind of made things confusing since it behaves contrary to all the other store pets.

There are probably some grey areas, but just to be on the safe side I follow a few simple rules:

    Trade RL money items for RL money or out of game items.
    Trade In-game items for gold or other in-game items.
      - Pet Codes do not count as an in-game item.
In the case of the Blossoming Ancient, maybe the person could find someone IRL to trade a few TCG cards to (the physical items that haven't been turned into in-game pets yet), and in exchange, the other person would buy/gift the store pet to them?
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Pompea
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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Pompea » June 17th, 2013, 8:02 pm

That was actually my thread, and I was just coming to post this!

The blue post I had in my OP talks about the action they take against this sort of thing. The scammer is punished and the person scammed is just poop out of luck for the item they were seeking. But if there's no scam, then what is the action they would take, period? I'm not sure.

They keep using the word "unsupported" also, which I think is why a lot of us were confused. "Unsupported" doesn't seem to imply that it's completely illegal, just that it's not something Blizzard looks into. Their FAQ also says trading cross-servers is "unsupported." Does that mean it's actionable as well, or is THIS a feature that's exclusively something they don't look into?

The confusing part to me is in how they word this stuff, and the examples they use. In one paragraph they say "this isn't supported and we won't look into it," and the next they say "you're not allowed."

At least we have a definitive answer here. This means trading for Blizzcon codes and collector's edition codes is actionable also.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Lidelse » June 17th, 2013, 9:10 pm

IMO they ought to allow digital deluxe versions of past xpacs to sort of stifle this if they dont want it, and possibly throw blizzcon pets up on the pet store. Either that or make them tradable in game.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Faelar » June 17th, 2013, 10:31 pm

I'm not really going to let it change how I do trading. Blizzard in the past has changed stances on this so many times it has gotten really old. I've traded for multiple tcg items, ce pets and blizzcon pets. I would advise opening a ticket and asking gms and see if you get a different answer (I bet you do.) Until I see more blues agreeing with what was said I'm not going to change right now.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Peanutty » June 17th, 2013, 10:50 pm

Just saw this post too where a forum post was deleted for "unsupported transaction" - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2627 ... enge-mode/ - looks like the player was selling challenge modes. People have sold in game services such as raid carries (gear, heroics, titles, raid clears, achieves, etc) and PVP carries for years and years now. And now they're saying "No don't do that"?

Far as I can tell it's fine as long as you don't advertise on their forum and accept that the transaction is at your own risk. (shrug)

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Ablutos » June 18th, 2013, 12:26 am

Wouldn't worry about it, like Faelar said they change their stance every 6months, Just make sure you only trade with trustworthy people or make the other person go first, can only really see it posing a risk to newer members since they wont have any reputation and will be forced to trade first.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Avalee » June 18th, 2013, 2:08 am

What's the deal with pets that are sold on Ebay? I'm not talking about TCG but pets like Living Fluid, Living Sandling, Voidcaller etc.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Maizing » June 18th, 2013, 3:01 am

Avalee wrote:What's the deal with pets that are sold on Ebay? I'm not talking about TCG but pets like Living Fluid, Living Sandling, Voidcaller etc.

I am pretty sure that in game only pets being sold on eBay is against the rules.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Index » June 18th, 2013, 3:03 am

This happened to me recently. I saw someone selling the Cinder Kitten code (level 1 unguilded - shoulda known better) so bought the pet for 20k. The person selling then got a bit off, calling ME the scammer (i hadn't parted with gold at this point) when I said something wasn't right, and I needed to contact a GM

the person then claimed I would be banned for reporting him, but the GM was very understanding, stating that as I had reported it right away, that no action would be taken, though it WAS a bannable offence!!!

Squeaky bum moment right there. Lesson learned: if it's seems too good to be true...

24 hours later, a genuine purchase was made.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Domie » June 18th, 2013, 4:59 am

I think the biggest reason this is against the tos, is because blizzard dont want to deal with scamming, both for your own sake, and because its hard for them to fix it in a good way when it happens.

Trading ingame gold for rl money is attracting scamers, and you shouldnt buy anything from people you are not sure you can trust
You can safely buy them from a close friend tho, its not like blizzard checks up on every sale unless someone informs them something bad is going on :)

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Dazer » June 18th, 2013, 6:42 am

Apparently they're into multiple legal battles involving the dubious fact that they own your digital account. Most EU countries won't observe a ToS in court; some even clearly state gaming companies can't have a ToS like the one we have with Blizzard.
In most cases they can't do anything based solely on a ToS. And they use 'actionable' and 'unsupported' because those terms are as vague as it can get.

Now, it's true that the agreement we have signed in the ToS is usually there only to protect customers. But code trading is hardly related to what the blue states: if you trade a code for a pet, what you're really doing is gifting stuff. Thus the 'unsupported' bit. If you are on the reciving end of a scam, they'll have a hard time actually framign it as a proper scam. At the end of the day accounts involved in such trades will, of course, be 'actionable': which can even mean to be on a watch-list.

If they were clearer with this stuff they probably would run into trouble in their legal battles. But that's ok, really; it leaves us in the same position as always: do your thing with people you trust, but don't expect Blizz to fix you if you are wronged by someone you shouldn't trust.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Ackbah » June 18th, 2013, 5:34 pm

Well, here is my sad tale. I just got scammed for one of the new bat mounts. I was in Illdian checking a few pet prices and I see a guy sellin these mounts for 18k. I know you can gift a code to someone from the Blizz store(I have done it) so I did not see how there could be anything wrong with it. I think most of us would rather spend 20kish in game then $25 RL bucks right? I don't have several hundred thousand dollars or gold or anything for that matter sitting around in RL like Ack does in WoW. I asked the guy if he could sell the code on Hellscream and he said sure. We logged over, I gave him 9k, he gave me the code. I redeemed the code, logged off logged on got the mount from the in-game mail and was actually riding the mount when I gave him the balance of 9k. The next morning the mount was gone...poof...I knew right away because the icon I dragged onto a bar was empty. Sick feeling...

I opened a ticket but after reading the blue post on the WoW boards and seeing the "Unsupported" aspect, I decided to cancel the ticket and move on.

I felt like an ass for awhile though. I have a hard time understanding how a company like Blizz can know about this and call it unsupported...the code worked..I rode that bastard around all day. I cant figure how they do it. Are the codes duped? Is this an insider deal where employees are involved? I donno. I mean the code has to go thru the authentication process...wth.

Since then I see these guys auctioning and I make a macro and pop it everytime they spam theirs trying to scam people. I get tells from potential buyers and explain what happened and maybe I keep a few peeps from getting burned. So I guess I have not really moved on have I...im tired of being mad...im moving on.

If you feel like telling me im stupid, don't bother, im aware.

Ack )

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Quintessence » June 18th, 2013, 5:45 pm

Ackbah wrote:I opened a ticket but after reading the blue post on the WoW boards and seeing the "Unsupported" aspect, I decided to cancel the ticket and move on.


That must have been so disheartening to find out it was a scam. :( So sorry that happened to you!

I think you should have still submitted a ticket and let the GMs know about the scammer. They probably wouldn't have refunded your gold or given you the mount back, but at least they might have taken some action and flagged the scammer's account.
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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Breehit » June 18th, 2013, 6:01 pm

Ack said:
"I cant figure how they do it. Are the codes duped? Is this an insider deal where employees are involved? I donno. I mean the code has to go thru the authentication process...wth."

How did a scammer get the item back, after they had transferred the code? This does not make sense, as Ack pointed out. It sounds like an inside job...are there Blizzard employees profiting from these scams??? :shock:

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Abizzmyl » June 18th, 2013, 6:14 pm

My guess would be that the purchase on the Blizzard Store was performed using a stolen credit card. Once the real owner noticed the unauthorised transaction the purchase, and the items, were cancelled. That would explain the delay.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Peanutty » June 18th, 2013, 6:16 pm

Ackbah wrote:I felt like an ass for awhile though. I have a hard time understanding how a company like Blizz can know about this and call it unsupported...the code worked..I rode that bastard around all day. I cant figure how they do it. Are the codes duped? Is this an insider deal where employees are involved? I donno. I mean the code has to go thru the authentication process...wth.


From what I understandy they're using stolen credit cards and/or canceling the payment for the transaction after giving you the code. So it is a valid code but once they pull payment Bliz will remove the item from your account.

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NathKnave
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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby NathKnave » June 19th, 2013, 3:05 am

Peanutty wrote:From what I understandy they're using stolen credit cards and/or canceling the payment for the transaction after giving you the code. So it is a valid code but once they pull payment Bliz will remove the item from your account.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what happens. For whatever reason, the payment gets cancelled which voids the sale, hence no mount. The best advice is to not ever deal with people "selling" pet or mount codes from the Blizzard Store. Whenever I see someone advertising like this, I make sure to report them. Supposedly it can take awhile for action to be taken against them, but I always assume the more people that report them the better.

Ackbah wrote:Since then I see these guys auctioning and I make a macro and pop it everytime they spam theirs trying to scam people. I get tells from potential buyers and explain what happened and maybe I keep a few peeps from getting burned. So I guess I have not really moved on have I...im tired of being mad...im moving on.

I like this idea a lot. The more people that are made aware of scams like these, the less they will work.

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Silverthorn » June 19th, 2013, 3:33 pm

Great idea. Can you provide the macro?

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Re: Uh oh: Pet store codes and trading.

Postby Gilneas » June 19th, 2013, 4:04 pm

Its not really complicated, and they haven't changed their position at all. This is what they've said for years. Like Quin said, you can trade real items for real items and/or currency. You can trade in-game items for in-game items and/or currency. Codes can fall under either one. Blizz store codes are considered RL items because you put the code in at the account page. TCG can be in-game codes though, because you give the code to the guy in BB (after you've retrieved it from the website... prior to that its a RL item).

Dazer wrote:Apparently they're into multiple legal battles involving the dubious fact that they own your digital account. Most countries won't observe a ToS in court


They are in no such battles. People like to claim that on the WoW forums, but it is simply not true.


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