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Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

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Breehit
 
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Breehit » March 27th, 2013, 10:51 am

Formerruling wrote:It is tradable.


Good point! Assuming its tradable, even we non-raiding types might eventually be able to earn enough gold to buy it..and that gives raiders another way to make even more gold, and thereby gain even more reward. Of course, it would help us if Blizzard introduced a system such as Guild Wars 2 uses, in which one can purchase in-game currency for real world money.

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Quintessence
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Quintessence » March 27th, 2013, 11:36 am

I have never been a fan of raid dropped pets. For a style of gameplay that's based around an individual doing stuff that only requires a single person, collecting shouldn't need 10+ people.

So I've looked the other way when it comes to pets that drop from old content raids because they've nerfed those encounters to be either solo-able or do-able with a small group.

When they introduced pets that drop from current content, that was borderline "not ok" for me. On one hand, they made it so that everyone has a chance due to the pets dropping in all versions of the raid (normal, heroic, LFR). I think that's a great idea, and it gives everyone a chance to get the pets. Not a huge chance since the droprate is small, plus you're relying on X number of people to not waste your time and help you get the job done. But there's still the possibility.

On the other hand, what will happen when the content becomes outdated and the majority lose interest/don't run ToT anymore? What about when the next expansion comes out and the LFR for Throne of Thunder becomes obsolete? Will they make ToT solo-able/do-able with less than 10 people at that point? Just so collectors and battlers can get the pets (if they haven't already)? If not, then many will likely have to wait an expansion and a half (if not more) for the current content raid pets. That is, if they're unwilling or unable to shell out X amount of gold or have a similarly valued pet to trade.

Now add in an exclusive pet just for one boss on heroic mode. It's just my opinion, but I have to shake my head at this. For a style of gameplay that was originally an individual activity, and still predominantly is, making it a requirement to rely on a group of others to get a pet isn't very considerate. And I say "required" because let's be honest. If you're a completionist or want to stay "highly competitive", collecting all the pets is a must and not really "optional".

Just IMHO. In the end, despite not agreeing 100% with how it gets done, I'll still end up trying to collect the pets. Sigh.
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Mowse
 
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Mowse » March 27th, 2013, 1:25 pm

Gwenolyn wrote:
Mowse wrote:As for doing the two pvp battles for the achievement - all you have to do is be in a winning battle. You could just run around the whole time and wait for it to end if you wanted.


I assumed the PvP achev. awarding a pet was for pet battle PvP?!? Is that right? Is there another pet for just plain PvP?


I'm sure you are correct, however I was referring to the legendary quest requirements mentioned above. To finish up a segment of the quest, you have to participate in and win each of the new battlegrounds. Someone mentioned they dropped the quest because they refused to do pvp, but they are really simple - just queue in and win, don't even really have to participate with the level of gear most people have now.

I also think being upset about one pet that is tradeable is a bit silly. Think of it from the other side of the coin, the very one you are arguing - Raiders (just using as an example), have had a lot of the exclusivity of being such taken away - all of the content is easily acquired through means of lfr, there are routine nerfs on normal and heroic content as well, so less competitive players can see even those modes. Gear is now easily obtainable by any level of casual to hardcore player, you can no longer stand apart and sparkle in awe of those who will likely never see that own gear on themselves. Even mounts that were guaranteed for heroic raiders now drop out of bags or can be bought off the black market auction house.

Now there is this one pet that is a reward for those players yet again, but even then, not even exclusive since it is tradeable! And people still are upset :( I just think it's a bit selfish. If it were bop and non cageable, I could understand the disappointment, but there is a high chance you all will still be able to get this pet. I know most of you don't understand the heroic raiding perspective, as you're not interested in it, or not in a capable guild, but just imagine how you feel now and apply that feeling to what hardcore raiders have felt for the last 5 or so years.

Just my 2 cents.

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Ravnhawk
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Ravnhawk » March 27th, 2013, 2:08 pm

While not all will be able to down the boss for the pet right away, there is still an option for getting it. And who know with all the flack Blizz is taking for locking it behind a heroic boss that may change. The good news is We can still get the pet at some point. It might not be right away (and that will most likely drive me crazy) at least we CAN get it. Either VIA pet trading, gold or even sweet talking a friend. (Any friends out there wanna be sweet talked? LOL)

I am not a hard core raider though I love raiding, my main is in a guild that raids and we will eventually get to the Heroics but not as soon as the hard core raiders. Those that do have the dedication and the skill for the Heroics get the best toys (ie. gear mounts and such). I am ok with that. Plus there are a lot of heroic raiders that simply don't care about the pets and will sell them. As time gos on the price will go down as well. I may not get it first but I'll get it eventually. I am more concerned about the 250 PvP pet battles to get the pet LOL then I am the heroic raid boss pet. Because that one can not be gotten any other way.

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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Waveryn » March 27th, 2013, 3:58 pm

I am with Quin, hated seeing LFR pets but can tolerate it but Heroic for the elitists only is so not fair, most of them do not collect and will just have another source to gank us on the AH.
I even hate the Brawlers pet and am still on level 2 but do not try much because I hate PVP type play so much, not all wow players were born in the computer age where nimble fingers and typing were part of growing up /schooling.
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Quintessence
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Quintessence » March 27th, 2013, 4:08 pm

Mowse wrote:Raiders (just using as an example), have had a lot of the exclusivity of being such taken away


The same could be said about much of the game, though. Including pet collecting (which has also branched off into pet battles now).

The issue I see is that although it's easy to get into collecting and pet battles, it's not as easy to get into raiding. Even LFR for some. This means many collectors will be left behind and will be forced to wait until current content becomes not so current (maybe in an expansion or two?), and that just doesn't sit well with me.

Snippet from my blog on the topic: Patience is a virtue, and yes, sometimes we just have to sit tight and wait it out. But there needs to be a balance when it comes to "rarity" and how difficult it is to obtain something. For pets that are RNG dropped based, making players (who don't raid, who don't have good RNG luck, and who can't spend gold on a raid pet) wait an expansion or two is a bit overkill in terms of difficulty. It's not even a "difficulty" level at that point. It's just a straight up roadblock, and makes you wonder whether or not the pets implemented into current raid content are there just to ensure people will come back and pay their subscriptions in a year or two.

At the very least, I certainly hope that the heroic-mode exclusive pet is a 100% droprate for the those that actually manage to defeat the encounter while content is still current.
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Mowse
 
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Mowse » March 27th, 2013, 5:07 pm

What's the fun in getting anything without any effort? : /

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Quintessence
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Quintessence » March 27th, 2013, 6:24 pm

Mowse wrote:What's the fun in getting anything without any effort? : /


Oh definitely, I agree that some effort should still be applied when collecting.

But effort doesn't necessarily have to entail hiring 9 others (or 24 for a 25 man raid) to run you through boss encounters until a certain pet drops. Effort could be implemented through questing, crafting, rare hunting, etc. I just don't think it's necessary to involve raiding in pet collecting.
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NathKnave
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby NathKnave » March 27th, 2013, 7:23 pm

Personally, I don't see a problem with Blizzard adding pets to current tiers of raiding. It seems like they're adding pets to all past raid tiers with the Raiding with Leashes achievements, and this could possibly be the same with current raids. All they have to do is add a few pets to the 5.0 raids, and put in an achievement with the final raid tier of Mists. While adding a pet that only drops from the heroic mode of a current raid seems like bad form, would you be nearly as upset if they did the same with heroic Lich King? Sure, there will be very few people able to get it initially, but everything can be out-geared eventually. Even the pets that they're adding to the BC raids in 5.3 seem pretty accessible right now, but back then they would have been relatively exclusive.

The way I see it, more pets is always better, no matter how they are obtained. While I won't be joining a heroic raid team any time soon, I'll be keeping my eye on the auction house. Barring that, I'll hope to come back to it next expansion with some friends that severely out-gear Throne of Thunder.

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Aislinge
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Aislinge » March 28th, 2013, 6:47 am

While I raid, I am not a Heroic Raider (not usually in that Tier). This, imho, is a very bad move. The % of hardcore raiders who will also be hardcore pet collectors will be very low. All this will do is funnel more gold to the said hardcore raiders enabling them to purchase more gear, quicker and penalising the lower, more casual players both in content and gold. I have no issue with a pet being in a raid - that's fine. But NOT in heroic only.

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Cat666
 
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Cat666 » March 28th, 2013, 9:53 am

I don't raid but I don't have an issue with a pet being dropped from raiding.

I know we are all pet hunters, but we shouldn't let that cloud our judgement. Until MoP all pets were was a vanity item and even now there are very few (if any) pets which you can't play the game without. People dislike fishing, archeology, rep grinds and farming monsters but no one seems to have issues with pets coming from those methods so why should raiding be any different?

The only valid argument is that most things can be done solo whilst raiding requires a group but in my opinion you either raid if you want the pet that badly, or you wait until the content is old enough to be soloed. At least the pet is tradeable so if you don't like raiding you can just throw a load of gold at it.

You don't need all the pets at the end of the day, so it's just a case of how much you actually need to satisfy your habit! It's not like we can get certain pets anyway (Spirit of Competiton etc.).

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Gilneas
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Gilneas » March 28th, 2013, 12:09 pm

The issue I see is that although it's easy to get into collecting and pet battles, it's not as easy to get into raiding. Even LFR for some. This means many collectors will be left behind and will be forced to wait until current content becomes not so current (maybe in an expansion or two?), and that just doesn't sit well with me.


I think its like many things Blizzard does. Easy to get into, difficult to master. Its very easy to get started. Its not too hard to get a nice, large varied collection. But to get everything it takes much more commitment, and might require the player to branch out and/or do things they might otherwise not.

I think heroic raid might be cranking it up a bit too high, but the general idea is sound. LFR is more than reasonable.

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Badpathing
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Badpathing » March 28th, 2013, 1:14 pm

I am not a heroic raider and this does not bother me. On the other hand, I do not mind buying pets I deem to much of a pain to get on my own. So, the addition of a pet that is out of my reach, but IS cage-able, really does not bother.

Sure, the price will be crazy at first.

But then it will drop. They always do.
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Elende
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Re: Heroic Raiding now required to complete collections...

Postby Elende » March 28th, 2013, 7:05 pm

I agree with Badpathing that even these new pets will be cheaper on the ah eventually-- I also don't mind that some pets are crazy hard to get. Keeps me interested, I have to say-- working towards the almost unobtainable keeps the game more fun for me than the short-lived satisfaction of actually obtaining whatever it is (and even of showing it off lol)--- too quickly it is just "well, ok. so what's next?" I am not a raider any more, burned out on the stress--- I did a few heroic ICC bosses along the way and was pretty excited when I managed to make it to the middle of the DPS pack! lol-- so I know I won't be getting those pets that way! Instead, now I get all excited when I get a good deal on the ah-- just like I did for my engineering, etc. pets. : >

And hey, maybe getting those pets will get some new folks hooked on collecting!

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