Well that didn't take long...

[Faelar]

Likely I'll end up making a post in the general forums. I'm not really sure where to put it to actually get a response that might be helpful. not like they post that often in the pet battle forums where I have a thread as well.

[Faelar]

Man I love the worthless wow forums. My thread is already 5 pages with people saying "Blizz won't answer that here! Blah blah blah" Then guess what? Someone links a thread from the customer support forums (The forum I am posting in btw) which shows a blue confirming an issue that happened in the past by saying compromised accounts are involved.

How freaking clueless are these idiots in the forums over there? They try to say something can not happen but yet link prove of it happening.

[Pettea]

I couldn't help myself, since you are misrepresenting the actual information in the thread. I understand your emotion and involvement, but noone is helped by flawed rhetorics and fallacious arguments. I urge you to read the link I posted earlier regarding human pattern seeking, as well as human reasoning and how we're all fallacies waiting to happen.

Man I love the worthless wow forums. My thread is already 5 pages with people saying "Blizz won't answer that here! Blah blah blah" Then guess what? Someone links a thread from the customer support forums (The forum I am posting in btw) which shows a blue confirming an issue that happened in the past by saying compromised accounts are involved.

How freaking clueless are these idiots in the forums over there? They try to say something can not happen but yet link prove of it happening.

You mean where Blue (Hermf) is stating: [url=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004043730?page=2#21]"You can't dupe items like this. It's not possible."[/url] You're too involved with your unsupported pet hypothesis that duping exists, in spite of there being no real evidence. The best 'clue' we've had so far was that several Spectral Tiger Cubs were all level 6. But that's akin to saying that because duping would produce identical pets, and we found identical pets, therefore there must be duping. This is not logical reasoning, as there are more ways to produce identical pets.

You are believing what you want to believe, and are ready to smear mud on anyone that calls you out on it. Although I do guess there is a possibility that Blizzard ordered their representative to flat out lie to the community, although then again, they usually take the misinformation route. And yes, you can have smoke without a fire.

It's not that you're not asking a genuine question, you're just framing it too much into what you think is going on. I'd recommend that you question the sudden appearance of a large volume of certain pets - which is something you literally observed; About these things there can be no question. You're also giving Blizzard an avenue of responding with no response, since they can sincerely say that your 'duping'-hypothesis simply is impossible from the client's side, leaving the actual question of "Where are all these pets coming from" largely unanswered (although in this case they actually do mention that they appear to be from compromised accounts).

[Faelar]

You mean the blue that says it was from compromised accounts? Also keep in mind that Blizzard has a very skewed definition of 'duped' items. Pettea here you are yet again trying to troll and you are just as wrong as they are in the other forums. The blue poster clearly states that compromised accounts are involved.

Even that small amount of information is USEFUL to use because it lets us know something very wrong is going on. The thing is we are well aware of it but we'd love something backing that up with a blue post.

So again Pettea, I am 100% correct on asking for a blue response over there to confirm compromised accounts or something else is going on. And I'll ask you to stop trolling this thread as there are plenty of us in this exact thread that are aware something is going on and we want some answers.

[Faelar]

And as far as 'evidence' goes. Are you familiar with the term "Circumstantial evidence' ? I don't need concrete evidence all I need is to see the smoke in the air to realize something is on fire and causing the smoke. Level 6 spectral cubs is a smoke trail. EST being cut in 1/3 of the price overnight a few months back is a smoke trail. And the smoke continues on and on to the 6 pets that have been hit, jewelled onyx panthers in the past, epic gems in BC, crimson deathchargers. On and on and on and you know, you don't get it. That is fine.

[Simmias]

They can't take any action because it's impossible to tell a duped one from a legit one. Best they can do is say 'sorry, no duping has occured'

Thousands of pets don't randomly appear on a specific day, on all servers, at the exact same level without some sort of major bug occuring. And they have, multiple times in the past year, without any release of new TCG decks. You'll still get morons who try to deny that duping occurs but the evidence is there for all to see. You'll just get yourself labelled as a duper yourself if or when you try to deny it.

Now to see what kind of bs the fool comes back with /popcorn.

[Faelar]

Yeah I fully expect a 'compromised accounts' lie. Because it sure didn't stop them from using that lie when level 6 spectral cubs flooded the market last year.

[Wakamaru]

You continue to direct your ridiculous argument towards Faelar like he's the only person claiming that duping is real and that we are seeing waves of duped pets, when the bulk of the active community here will acknowledges that is real and it is happening. One scan of UndermineJournal or most AHs will show that this in fact happening. It's not hard to spot and usually involves some sort of combination of quantity and prices plummeting far below what the pets are actually worth.

In general these pets are extremely rare, be it from finding an actual card in a booster pack, or getting the raid to drop the VH. There is no way that 100s of accounts all having these rare finds by NATURAL means are constantly compromised, having the pets stolen repeatedly then sold on the auction house for ridiculously low prices. Due to the actual (intended) rarity of such pets, if they were from compromised accounts then the repeated influxes on the auction houses (as we see when dupe waves hit) would suggest that the same pets are being stolen and restolen constantly in order create a 'rotating door' of them to be available. That's not happening. There are far more of the pets available than there should be according to how hard they are to actually come by. New pets are being generated and sold, simple as that.

Saying that it's not possible just because Blizzard PR says so feels a lot like saying that something is true just because a Politician said so. A claim may be made but a community can see beyond it with observation and a little common sense.

... sometimes.

Now to see what kind of bs the fool comes back with /popcorn.

[Kpb321]

Pettea,

I get what you are saying but if you have any other reasonable explanation for what we are seeing I'd love to hear it. The quantity and speed at which these new pets appear only points to once conclusion for me especially in light of the STC wave where they were all level 6. Sure, we don't have "Proof" because all we can see is the results of it. I there were anywhere near the number of accounts being compromised to supply all these pets I'm sure we'd hear about it from a member here who had their account compromised.

The blue may be right that the way that it was suggested that the pets were duped wasn't possible because of the way they do things but that is far different that it being completely impossible to dupe things.

[Nightabsm]

I'm all for making these pets more accessible.

So you are perfectly fine with pets being duped all over the place as long as you are able to get all of the ones you are missing? I personally don't feel that the group that should be benefiting the most from all of this is the gold sellers. They've done so much crap over the years to make the game suck at times.

Like I said, making a larger public happy. Just because we do not like it, doesn't change the fact many others may man. No need to throw hostility around. We're ALL getting screwed here, we're all bigger pet traders. Some of us just know how much to invest in a screwed up market to avoid being the victim of on-going dupping. This is not the last wave of dupes and it will not be, nor do we know what new pet will be in the next dupping wave. Whoever is doing the dupping does not care about the TCG gold or dollar market, they want their own gold and dollar. It's pretty much that simple, and none of our ranting will change it sadly.. It is in Blizzards control and clearly, they do not care enough for whatever reason.

[Faelar]

Aveia...that post was amazing! Thank you for doing such research, I had not thought of using methods like that to do some digging but...that is some great data and highlights what we've been watching for nearly a year now. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that work!!

Yeah Nigtabsm, I was a little annoyed mainly at Pettea trying to derail the thread but I was also annoyed at this just happening period as I took a small hit and just lost value overnight.

And finally, My issue with the big influx of pets is simple. Why are all of these pets level 1? If they were compromised accounts you'd see an influx of partially levelled ones as well as level 25 ones. But no. all of the low level spammers and the ones posted by randomly named level 1s (the ones that post 2-3 of like 4 or 5 of the tcgs) are all level 1 as well. Compromised/stolen pets should have been varied in levels with a fair number of 25s sprinkled in with a fair amount of level 1's.

[Faelar]

And blizzard locked the thread over on the other forums, wow how shocking. With only 5 pages of people trolling the thread too.

Just continues the trend of Blizzard saying nothing and doing nothing when it comes to these pets

[Faelar]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13347124807?page=6 Post number 109 from a blue. I'll post a few of the highlights for those that don't wish to go read it.

*To clarify, these items are not "duped" in the traditional sense (i.e. player doing something themselves in order to create a copy of the first item). These items are obtained through exploitative means.

Mainly they want us to report any of these people selling the pets, report the people in trade spamming them, report the people on the AH through tickets if they are not online to use the report player function by right clicking someone. But we got what we wanted which was a confirmation that something is indeed wrong with these pets.

I also feel VERY smug about this whole situation as I waited through 5 pages of posts of people's trolling attempts on the official WoW Customer Support forums to tell me I wouldn't get a blue response to get the exact response I was waiting for. So Pettea, there you go: "These items are obtained through exploitative means."

[Wakamaru]

These items are obtained through exploitative means.

At least they have somewhat confirmed what most of us could clearly see happening. That's progress I suppose!

[Simmias]

more people with rarer pets means more variety and fun in pet battles. But this also means gold farmers become more and more prevalent. I don't join chat channels anymore, my ignore list is full and I'm sick of reporting them (which does nothing)

we can't win so why even try? I'll no longer trade in rarer pets, I just hope they don't dupe the mounts again.

[Peanutty]

But this also means gold farmers become more and more prevalent... I'm sick of reporting them (which does nothing)

Sadly I feel the same. Even though the blue poster asked for players to report sellers of suspect items, it does no good. I've done that in the past (during the flood of Crimson Deathchargers) and after sending in a few tickets they told me that I needed to stop using the ticket system and right click report the player for cheating. So I asked, how else can I report someone when I can't right click their name since the player isn't online, and they pretty much said I'd just have to wait until they were online. HUH?? So basically these guys are unreportable since they're not regular players who are logged in long enough to be reported via the right click system.

[Faelar]

haha yeah I love the "use the right click to report them" when these characters are on less than 1 minute, not even time to find what AH they are at let alone right click them.

[Zohdee]

I am glad I didn't buy a Tuskarr Kite card. I have always wanted a EST but I can't play all that much due to work and he care of my dogs.