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Carry Pet Experience Reference

Guides and information to collecting specific pets.
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Ravnhawk
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Ravnhawk » January 10th, 2014, 2:30 pm

WOW lots and lots of excellent data here. It's helping me decide which pets to use for max pet xp on the trainers. But I must add.... WAY too much math for me ... My job is math heavy. So having someone do the math for me totally ricks.

Thanks Again!

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Ziboo
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Ziboo » January 10th, 2014, 8:17 pm

Very impressive. Thank you for all the work and for sharing it here.

I'll admit I don't maximize my XP gain for leveling pets very efficiently. I tend to try to level pets with alts that are also leveling, so the toon and the pets both benefit.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 15th, 2014, 8:27 pm

Thanks!

I still have to figure out why some are 1 point off. Without access to the internal rounding rules it's hard to figure out where that extra point comes from. Is there something small missing in the equation or is it floating point error (or both)? I'm building up a stack of 50% pet foods so I can do some better testing.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

Mystik_sok
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Mystik_sok » January 16th, 2014, 7:34 pm

Jerebear wrote:Thanks!

I still have to figure out why some are 1 point off. Without access to the internal rounding rules it's hard to figure out where that extra point comes from. Is there something small missing in the equation or is it floating point error (or both)? I'm building up a stack of 50% pet foods so I can do some better testing.


Which results are a point off? Carry pet level and % of buff.

I made my own tables quite some time ago and I'm just curious where you saw the rounding issues.

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Ellaire
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Ellaire » January 16th, 2014, 11:39 pm

This is exactly the information that I was looking all over the interwebz for. Thanks for this, Jerebear!

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 16th, 2014, 11:39 pm

Level 10/11 pets with all buffs (1.85x) against a Pandaria tamer equates to 8788 (well 8787.5, but normally the values round), but ingame I get 8787. There was also a level 9 that was one point off with just a safar hat (1.1x). I want to say that one was against a Northrend tamer. In that case, the level 12 (which has the same EXP result mathematically) rounded correctly, leading me to think it was a floating point issue. Most of my data was done no buffs or just safari. I'm working on getting a lot of pet treats to fully vet out "all buffs". Hopefully with enough data I can at least identify where the 1 offs are.

EDIT: yeah, going back through my data, a level 9 with just a safari hat vs a northrend tamer is supposed to get 3118.5, which normally rounds up to 3119, but instead was at 3118. Conversely, the level 12 correctly rounded up to 3119, though both have equal "on paper" mathematical results.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

Mystik_sok
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Mystik_sok » January 17th, 2014, 12:38 am

Interesting. I'm not generally one to sweat rounding inconsistencies but I do find the equations and scalers interesting and makes me wonder if blizz will just reduce all the scalers come WoD and keep the 12.5 scaler for current trainers only. Though that would be inconsistent since new trainers would have to be more difficult, or at least equal. Who knows, but God I hope they don't add 11 more I can grind for twice the pet battles per day.

As far as rounding rules are the results always consistent? In other places in game values show as whole numbers but decimals are kept behind the scenes, like faction gains for humans, every kill gives 5 faction, but humans get 6 every other kill because of 10% bonus. Though I assume this would cause the rounding errors to appear more often and less consistently.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 17th, 2014, 8:24 am

Well from my experience, blizzard uses at least two different rounding rules for:
1. decimal < 0.5 rounds down, else round up. Tricky part here is where in the process this rounding occurs. Since this is done in code, it can be broken up a number of different ways.

2. Weighted statistical rounding: If a value has a 0.25 decimal, then 3/4 of the time it will round down and 1/4 of the time it will round up (on average given enough statistical data points). You see this sometimes in ability damage calcs and reputation gains...or at least you used to in wrath/cata, but haven,t checked in a couple years).

For this, I don't suspect #2 as I have seen pretty consistent experience results and I have been running tamers for a long time. If it is #1, then figuring out where in the process of calculating the result the rounding occurs. Rounding at the end doesn't seem to be it as that gives 1 off results. Flooring doesn't appear to be correct for every instance either.

I probably shouldn't bother over 1 point difference, especially when it could be floating point storage error, but it just bothers me that they aren't exact lol. That and it really is the trends that matter (which pets get the most EXP rather exactly how much).

EDIT: on your question on whether they are always consistent. From my experience yes, but I wouldn't go out on a limb and say I have a statistically significant sample to say for sure 100%. I could be just getting really lucky on RNG.

EDIT: had my 1/4 and 3/4 mixed up.
Last edited by Jerebear on January 17th, 2014, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

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Papazol
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Papazol » January 17th, 2014, 9:31 am

Missed this topic before, but now it is on main page ;) All, who lvling many pets, on some point start to note exp and another things. Your topic has many good datas for future work.
Jerebear wrote:Level 10/11 pets with all buffs (1.85x) against a Pandaria tamer equates to 8788 (well 8787.5, but normally the values round), but ingame I get 8787.

Yes. I saw it in your first list, and wanted to mark but you already found it. Also, if my notes right, 21 lvl with full buffs get 6241 exp, not 6244.

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Kring
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Kring » January 17th, 2014, 9:38 am

Jerebear wrote:2. Weighted statistical rounding: If a value has a 0.25 decimal, then 1/4 of the time it will round down and 3/4 of the time it will round up (on average given enough statistical data points). You see this sometimes in ability damage calcs and reputation gains...or at least you used to in wrath/cata, but haven,t checked in a couple years).


I don't think this is correct in regard to reputation. I play a human, with the diplomacy racial, which means if you get 18 reputation for a mob kill, I will get 19.8. And as far as I remember in that example I would always get 19, 19, 19, 19 and then 20 reputation in this pattern and not a random value of either 19 or 20. Meaning I will never see two times 20 reputation in a row.

I always assumed that reputation is stored as real number so it remembers fractions of reputation gains. Could be the same for XP.

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Warstar
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Warstar » January 17th, 2014, 11:45 am

This may sound basic (and it is) but can we get this simplified?

I.E. "If you want to level up 2 Level 1 pets using a Level 25 Carrying pet, then go to Trainer 'X' first for the most XP" and so on?

Maybe I'm just lazy to look through the grids but I do find this oddly fascinating. Great work!

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 17th, 2014, 12:34 pm

Kring wrote:I don't think this is correct in regard to reputation. I play a human, with the diplomacy racial, which means if you get 18 reputation for a mob kill, I will get 19.8. And as far as I remember in that example I would always get 19, 19, 19, 19 and then 20 reputation in this pattern and not a random value of either 19 or 20. Meaning I will never see two times 20 reputation in a row.

I always assumed that reputation is stored as real number so it remembers fractions of reputation gains. Could be the same for XP.


Note, that what I was referring to didn't need to be random. It can be mostly forced. It just needs to come out weighted over a sample set. A lot of things changed mechanically somewhere mid wrath, the beginning of Cata, and even the beginning of of MoP. I haven't kept up with that kind of stuff since simulation programs started becoming more popular, which has been a while now. So you could very well be correct. I was just noting it because they had used that system in the past at least. I don't think it is the case for pet experience though. Values seem to be fairly consistent so far.

Warstar wrote:This may sound basic (and it is) but can we get this simplified?

I.E. "If you want to level up 2 Level 1 pets using a Level 25 Carrying pet, then go to Trainer 'X' first for the most XP" and so on?

Maybe I'm just lazy to look through the grids but I do find this oddly fascinating. Great work!

In terms of tamers most people level off of, for any level pet that would be:
Pandaria Tamer > Northrend/Cata Tamer since the enemy pets are all 25s

Once you get to outlands it it can get complicated since the parabolic max values move with enemy pet level. I can try and take a look at generating that kind of info at some point, but right now I really want to focus on figuring out the 1 point inconsistencies. I would like to solidify this as much as possible
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 17th, 2014, 4:20 pm

Papazol wrote:Yes. I saw it in your first list, and wanted to mark but you already found it. Also, if my notes right, 21 lvl with full buffs get 6241 exp, not 6244.


I just tested this one today. I got 6244 exactly. Bear in mind if the 21 pet had enough experience already, it can go all the way to 25 and you wouldn't get the full amount of experience. I tested with a level 21 pet that had no XP towards his level.

I tested 11 different pets today. Here were the results:
Image

Looks like anything that has 0.5 is rounding down instead of up (with just a safari hat it rounds up with a 0.5). All the other values round correctly from what I can tell.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

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Skye
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Skye » January 17th, 2014, 4:29 pm

I have no idea how to write addons, but it would be pretty insanely awesome if someone could incorporate this data into an addon somehow. Using the data for how much XP pets need per level to level up (50 to get from 1 to 2, 110 to get from 2 to 3, etc) it could say "Your pet needs ___ more experience to reach level 25." in your pet journal somewhere. Then in a tooltip whenever you hover over a trainer (possibly wild pet too, not sure if that would work or not) it would tell you how much experience you would earn with your current team, using Jerebear's calculations. It could probably even give you a warning to let you know that if you battle this trainer with your team of L25 / L25 / L24 that you will "waste" x number of XP since you only need 1980 (or less) to hit 25 and the trainer will give you 2723 when you win.

So many possibilities, if only I knew how to code haha!

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Pyrephoenix
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Re: Carry Pet experience forumla updated anywhere?

Postby Pyrephoenix » January 17th, 2014, 6:24 pm

Poofah wrote:1x wild pet battle -- carry pet is lvl 5
low-level tamer (WS or Deadwind, or Antari) -- carry pet is lvl 9.5
4x Pandaria tamers -- carry pet jumps to lvl 16, then 20, then 22.9, then 25, with virtually no wasted XP.


Poofah, which continent is that first wild pet battle on, and how much does the wild pet matter? Seems like some wild critters wouldn't be nearly as baby-pet friendly as others, particularly ones that can cast back-line damage.

edit: accidentally a word.

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Talents3777
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Talents3777 » January 19th, 2014, 1:22 pm

Thank you for this reference, would be great to see some of the data charts in image format, would make them more easily printable.

I have to wonder about this statement, however.... "The quality of the defeated pet does not affect experience gain, and you get full experience if you capture or defeat your opponent."

Now, I do watch XP fairly closely and I am not so sure that comment is accurate. First off, I know for a fact that the quality of the pet affects the experience gained by the actual character, if leveling a character at the same time as leveling a pet. That data is easily recorded into my chat window and correlates perfectly with the types of pets battled.

As for the experience gained by the pet(s) being leveled, I can only assume it comes into the equation somehow if it affects the leveling experience of the actual character. However, as of this time, I have not figured out how to have the experience of the pet to actually print out in the chat window to more easily watch for mathematical fluctuations.

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 19th, 2014, 3:26 pm

That line is from wowwiki, not this guide (though I know a few posts in this thread do reference that wowwiki page), so I cannot fully comment on it. However, pet experience and player experience are two very separate things. This guide covers pet experience, not player experience. For pet experience, the quality of the pet being fought absolutely has no effect on the experience gained by the pet (it might on the player...but this guide doesn't really cover that regardless). If you take a level 10 pet against Obalis (who has epic pets) they get the same amount of experience as if you took him against Okrut which has rare quality pets. It might indeed effect the experience the player himself/herself gets, but that's (so far) outside the realm of this guide at the moment.

As far as capturing goes, I know it is supposed to reduce experience gained by 25% according to the wiki somewhere, but I haven't tested that, so I don't know if that is in reference to pet experience or player experience or both. It's on my list of things to fully vet out (along with 2 carry pets with different levels), but at the moment I want to fully understand the context that the majority of levellers are going to care about (single carry pet with various experience buffs).

You can actually have your pet experience appear in the chat windows. There is an option in the chat window settings for that. It's how I verify everything.
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

Komalsharma1122
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Komalsharma1122 » January 20th, 2014, 6:24 am

I care. Thanks for doing this, please share the results

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Voodymoo
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Voodymoo » January 20th, 2014, 7:59 am

gratz on making the front page!
have been using this info and its definitely saved me tons of time

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Jerebear
 
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Re: Carry Pet Experience Reference

Postby Jerebear » January 20th, 2014, 4:59 pm

I made a couple of updates to the Pandaria Tamer chart in the guide. And I added a pet experience chart for all the levels (just for reference). I still have to verify Hat + LPT only for Pandaria Tamers, but that will be coming (EDIT: Done actually. Now working on Northrend/Cata Tamers). I spent the last few days testing out full buffs (B = 1.85) for the Pandaria Tamers and am currently working on North/Cata on the side (still have time on the buffs after all). It kills me because since most of my pets are level 6+, I had to waste the buffs on some random poor quality pets just to get data for certain levels. I ended up having to waste the buffs on 5 non-rare pets, but it was worth it. Below is the collected data vs what the equation comes up with:
Image

Notice how any time a number ends in .5, the game rounds down. This isn't consistent, because it sometimes rounds up at .5 in other setups (a lot of the Safari Hat only results for example). In other data sets (Northrend/Cata tamers with B=1.85), it rounds up and down for various points. Still leaning towards floating point error.

There was no real good way to verify level 24 as even if you split between 2 level 24's, it was too much experience. I could theoretically split between 3 24's to verify and expect 1526 exp for each of them, but then I am no longer in the carry pet context, so probably not worth it at this point. I did split into two 23's to test that level. Luckily, between 22 and 25 there is exactly 5760 exp, so I could test a 22 normally as long as it didn't have any experience (or at least very very little)
Carry Pet Experience Reference Guide:
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8829

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